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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#1  Unread postPosted: March 9th, 2018, 4:45 pm

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Location: Vista, California
Local time: July 17th, 2018, 3:58 pm
Country:  US California (US)
My Bike Models: Present Ride 1985 GL1200A
Former rides
2000 R1100RT
2005 Suzuki Bandit
1979 Yamaha XS1100
1978 Yamaha XS1100 Special
1990 Yamaha XV250
1980 Yamaha XV750
1979 Honda CB750
1968 Triumph Bonneville T120
1973 Honda CB450
1968 Harley Davidson Sportster
1974 Honda CB750
1968 Honda CL72
1999 R1100RT


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So I removed my old regulator / rectifier and replaced it with a Shindengen (or according to one supplier a "fake" one). These cost about 20.00 (the supplier mentioned adds 3 feet of battery cable and gets 128.95 plus shipping) and includes everything in the picture.

It fit on the bracket left after taking off the the regulator and the bracket. Fits under the false tank and wires in nicely as you can see from the pictures. The voltmeters all read 13.2 volts but the battery terminals read 14.3 with a meter at idle (about 1000 RPM), headlight on, brake off.

According to the fairing mounted voltmeters (2, 1 digital and illuminated for dark and 1 gauge not illuminated) braeak light on drops about a volt.

I'll let you know if it doesn't work or fails, but to save 100.00 bucks!!

In thinking it through, probably new wires, new connectors wiring it direct probably works like it used to when new!

No instructions, no polarity shown had to hook up the stator and start the bike and test to find out neg/pos, i doesn't make full voltage at that point but you can find neg and pos.
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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#2  Unread postPosted: March 9th, 2018, 4:46 pm

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Location: Vista, California
Local time: July 17th, 2018, 3:58 pm
Country:  US California (US)
My Bike Models: Present Ride 1985 GL1200A
Former rides
2000 R1100RT
2005 Suzuki Bandit
1979 Yamaha XS1100
1978 Yamaha XS1100 Special
1990 Yamaha XV250
1980 Yamaha XV750
1979 Honda CB750
1968 Triumph Bonneville T120
1973 Honda CB450
1968 Harley Davidson Sportster
1974 Honda CB750
1968 Honda CL72
1999 R1100RT


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Oh here is where I got mine: https://www.banggood.com/Regulator-Rect ... rehouse=CN

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#3  Unread postPosted: March 9th, 2018, 5:16 pm

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I will certainly be watching to see if this unit hold up. At $20 bucks, it might be worth it for sure! Watch your battery though. It appears you are hardwired to the battery with both positive and negative with a 10ga wire with no disconnect. If the regulator fails, what are the chances of frying the battery or having the regulator overheat (if it fails while riding).

The original RR is hardwired on one side to the 30 amp fuse (two red/white wires) and shuts off with the key switch on the black wire.

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#4  Unread postPosted: March 9th, 2018, 5:19 pm

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Location: Vista, California
Local time: July 17th, 2018, 3:58 pm
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My Bike Models: Present Ride 1985 GL1200A
Former rides
2000 R1100RT
2005 Suzuki Bandit
1979 Yamaha XS1100
1978 Yamaha XS1100 Special
1990 Yamaha XV250
1980 Yamaha XV750
1979 Honda CB750
1968 Triumph Bonneville T120
1973 Honda CB450
1968 Harley Davidson Sportster
1974 Honda CB750
1968 Honda CL72
1999 R1100RT


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Yup, but I have the wired fuse that I can add to it later on... i thought it odd to use 10 gauge and switch to 12 or 14 for the fuse.

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#5  Unread postPosted: March 9th, 2018, 6:18 pm

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Looking forward to the operating report. Is this purported to be a series or shunt type RR? Another good option is the Shidengen SH775 series RR that is used on a lot of ATVs. It is a series RR using the older SCR technology, but the key here is it is a series RR, not a shunt type. Reasonably priced from what I have seen at approximately $75.00 USD. Something to consider if this one doesn't work out.

The reading on the voltmeters is lower because of where you have the RR connected into the electrical system, at the battery. My preference if you don't want to connect the RR into the system as per the OEM installation, is at the starter solenoid battery terminal. Connecting it directly to the battery positive terminal puts the entire electrical load that needs to be distributed to the various electrical components at and into the battery. In essence you are going to do a short term frying of your battery, shortening the life span of the battery. The short cable connection from the starter solenoid to the battery will protect the battery from this.

You could also go into the wiring harness and find the connection between the red wire from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch and the original OEM red/wire. The red/white wire that is still connected at this juncture will still be live at all times even now with the new RR installed. Connect the new RR positive wire to this juncture and you will find the voltmeters reading correctly.

Connecting the RR at this juncture maintains the design intent off the electrical system. This schematic illustrates this:
Attachment:
gl1200 charge system schematic - 1.JPG
Point A is where the OEM installed RR is connected into the electrical system. I submit that if Honda thought connecting the RR directly to the battery was a good idea, it would have been done. I have annotated this schematic with an additional 30 amp circuit that is only on the '85 and '86 FI bikes, yours does not have this circuit; however, it demonstrates that Honda did not have an issue using the starter solenoid as a power junction, but Honda does not use the battery as a power junction which is what happens when you connect circuits to the battery itself such as the output from the RR.

You could also connect the new RR output wire to the existing red/white wire that goes to the power junction, achieves the same aim, no fuse required, there wasn't one there from the factory. The OEM RR has two red/white wires. These wires are joined into a single wire just after these wires disappear into the wiring harness.

The battery is not the main power source on the bike, the alternator unit is. The RR is to maintain a voltage of ~14.0 VDC in the electrical system. The battery has a maximum voltage of ~12.6 VDC. As long as the electrical system voltage is greater than 12.6 VDC, the battery is a low power draw on the system, specifically a trickle charge - the battery cannot input any power into the system when the voltage is above 12.6 VDC. The battery starts the bike, provides supplemental power to the electrical system when the alternator is not producing sufficient power - less than 12.6 VDC, and absorbs system voltage spikes. Other than this the majority of power produced is for the operation of the bike.

The battery is designed to discharge and be replenished in a relatively short period of time to approximately 12.6 VDC. When the battery is at ~12.6 VDC or even less it will resist or start to resist current input because of the internal makeup of the battery - also prevents the probability of being overcharged. As I mentioned above, the battery resistance to current input results in a trickle charge to the battery. Once the battery is at a 100% state of charge, the battery is not meant to be continuously bombarded with a voltage of 14.0 VDC and full system current. Much the same as when a battery tender is used, the battery is brought up to a 100% state of charge then the battery tender goes into a float/maintenance mode with very little current flow into the battery.

Having mentioned all of the above, if you are not inclined to connect the new RR into the wiring at the same location as the original RR, or at the power junction, connect the RR to the battery terminal of the starter solenoid, your battery will thank you for it.

Connecting the ground to the battery is not an issue, but I would not connect more than 4 ground wires at the battery negative terminal.

The original red/white wire is a max wire gauge of 12, probably even a 14 GA. 10 GA from the RR is quite robust for the application.

The original sense wire is a switched 12 VDC power supply that can now be used with relays if you were thinking of installing some.

Just thinking out loud and a few thoughts to consider.

Good luck. Cheers
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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#6  Unread postPosted: March 9th, 2018, 8:33 pm

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Location: Vista, California
Local time: July 17th, 2018, 3:58 pm
Country:  US California (US)
My Bike Models: Present Ride 1985 GL1200A
Former rides
2000 R1100RT
2005 Suzuki Bandit
1979 Yamaha XS1100
1978 Yamaha XS1100 Special
1990 Yamaha XV250
1980 Yamaha XV750
1979 Honda CB750
1968 Triumph Bonneville T120
1973 Honda CB450
1968 Harley Davidson Sportster
1974 Honda CB750
1968 Honda CL72
1999 R1100RT


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Regulator Rectifier Upgrade Kit Replaces FH012AA For SHINDENGEN MOSFET FH020AA is what the ad says...

Does the RR limit the charge based on battery state? In other words a low battery can be charged at 14.8 volts and then should be dropped to ~12.6, so does this happen by the battery internal resistance changing?

Also if the current output is 14.8 how does connecting to either the red wire(s) or the battery terminal of the starter solenoid?

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#7  Unread postPosted: March 9th, 2018, 9:37 pm

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Regulator Rectifier Upgrade Kit Replaces FH012AA For SHINDENGEN MOSFET FH020AA is what the ad says...

Does the RR limit the charge based on battery state? In other words a low battery can be charged at 14.8 volts and then should be dropped to ~12.6, so does this happen by the battery internal resistance changing?The battery accepts a specific amount of current to return to a 100% state of charge. The closer the internal voltage gets to a 100% state of charge, the internal battery design resists further DC input and the current flow reduces and slows to almost a trickle charge the closer the battery gets to a 100% state of charge. Having a reading of 14.0 VDC at the battery is not the issue, the issue is current flow. Check any point in the electrical system,
and in a perfect world the voltage reading would be 14.0 VDC; however, you do not know what the current flow is at that point.


Also if the current output is 14.8 how does connecting to either the red wire(s) or the battery terminal of the starter solenoid?Connecting to the starter solenoid battery terminal is in essence a power junction. The electrical system load requirement is at this terminal and the alternator allows the appropriate current to be at this terminal for distribution out to the electrical system that includes the battery. For example in the schematic I posted for my bike there is a current flow of 10 amps from point A to the stater solenoid battery terminal. It is split at this terminal 2 to 3 amps (will vary as the battery gets closer to a 100%state of charge) to the battery and 7 amps to the 30 amp circuit that Honda has connected here as well. The short 8 GA cable from the starter solenoid to the battery positive terminal isolates the battery from the full effect of the 10 amp current at the starter solenoid battery terminal.



From the add the RR you have is a shunt type RR. Better than the OEM RR because it uses MOSFET components. The SH775 series RR is still a good option.

The RR is designed to maintain an electrical system voltage of ~14.0 VDC. It does this by sensing the electrical system voltage, not the battery voltage. The voltage goes down because of more current flow - electrical loads come on line such as a rad fan, the RR compensates by admitting more DC into the system until the system voltage returns to ~14.0 VDC. If the current flow decreases, less load on the system, the system voltage will go up and the RR reduces the DC flow into the electrical system.

It is understood that ~14.0 VDC is optimal to replenish the battery back to a 100% state of charge and maintain the battery at the 100% state of charge. Voltage - electrical pressure - must be higher from the alternator to push DC into the battery.

A battery has an amp-hr rating and CCA - cold crank amps. This is important in our understanding because if the battery expends say 200 amps of a 400 amp-hr rating, the replenishment of the battery needs 200 amps. The CCA rating refers to the number of amps a 12-volt battery can deliver at 0°F for 30 seconds while maintaining a voltage of at least 7.2 volts. The higher the CCA rating, the greater the starting power of the battery. It's all about amps - current. Battery chargers use amps as the rating for the battery charger. Battery chargers can have a 2 or 10 amp charge rate or others, you never see a 14.0 VDC or 16 VDC charge rate.

The real issue is the ampere rating of the alternator. You never see a request to get an alternator at a higher voltage rating, but you do question the ampere size of the alternator.

For example, my bike has a base DC load of 17 amps at 14.0 VDC. I add two sets of driving lights - 20 amps at 14.0 VDC. Turn on the rad fan - 24 amps at 14.0 VDC, add heated liner and I have 29 amps at 14.0 VDC. Battery is at a 100% state of charge drawing a low current of 2 amps or less - this is included in the readings. The battery is also only at 12.6 VDC regardless of what the electrical system reading is at.

Hope this helps. Cheers

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#8  Unread postPosted: March 10th, 2018, 9:06 am

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Frank - here is another of my threads regarding this exact issue. The automotive vintage/refurbishing industry that spends a considerable amount of money on its projects (there are more of these people than us) is a proponent of not going to the battery. From my research, connecting directly to the battery is not recommended. Have a read, for info and only my thoughts and opinion. YMMV.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12727

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#9  Unread postPosted: March 10th, 2018, 12:48 pm

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I would rather make all my additional connections directly at the battery through relays and auto resetting circuit breakers so that you are not increasing load on the existing wiring. I find that if you want to increase circuit voltage in the existing wiring then the best way is to reduce the load on theses circuits. I do get concerned when we are having discussions about motorcycle wiring and we are using examples of a 400 amp hour battery as that is the size battery bank that I would see in a motorhome or boat (4x100ah batteries etc). Our bikes would be lucky to have a 20ah battery in their electrical systems.

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I would rather make all my additional connections directly at the battery through relays and auto resetting circuit breakers so that you are not increasing load on the existing wiring. I find that if you want to increase circuit voltage in the existing wiring then the best way is to reduce the load on theses circuits. I do get concerned when we are having discussions about motorcycle wiring and we are using examples of a 400 amp hour battery as that is the size battery bank that I would see in a motorhome or boat (4x100ah batteries etc). Our bikes would be lucky to have a 20ah battery in their electrical systems.


I used the 400 AH as an example, you are correct, our batteries are much smaller - could have used 20 AH as well. My point is that going to the battery is not the best solution, maybe the easiest but not the best solution, and that the electrical system load requirement is what drives the electrical system.

You are correct in that you could overload a circuit, but with the installation of a new RR and maintaining the existing wiring configuration, connecting the new RR to the existing wiring harness does not overload the older RR wiring or the circuit. If it does or did, there would be other issues to contend with. It does maintain the design intent of the original installation. I also contend that using the battery as a load centre is not what the battery is for.

As for additional load devices, I recommend making a connection at the power junction - the point where the RR first connects into the wiring harness, and go to a new fuse block - again do not use the battery as a load centre. This is the best way to add any load device to the system as you can tailor the wiring/fuse size for the new load(s) to suit.

Failing this, I recommend doing what Honda did on the '85 and '86 FI bikes and that is to install a new 30 amp circuit to a new aux fuse block connected at the starter solenoid battery terminal, not the battery. Additional loads can be connected to the system with the appropriate wire/fuse selection. Good enough for the '85 and '86 FI bikes, should be good enough for the non FI bikes.

As for relays, quite like them and have 4 new ones on my '85 LTD, agree with the use. Need to find a 12 VDC switched wire to power the relays, not difficult to do. Have one more I want to add for the rad fan - take this load of the ignition circuit.

To complement the installation of a new aux fuse block, install a new ground bus bar as well. Don't really want to see this:
Attachment:
Positive terminal.jpg


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The power junction is just a convenient location for the joining of these circuits. The battery serves the same purpose unless you have an extremely long run to your circuits. Then the use of a remote sensing circuit for the regulator allows you to source this from a location closer to your load and boost the voltage artificially at the load. The disadvantage of this is that you are now increasing the charging parameters of the regulator by the amount of voltage drop in the circuit at the sensing point. This will then cause a higher charging voltage going to the battery than may be the preferred charging voltages for good battery life. Batteries in cold climates prefer much higher charging rates than in hot climates which is a reason behind temperature compensating voltage regulators. I believe the best way to improve your Electrical performance on an Oldwing is to reduce the electrical load on the original wiring and switch gear. The simple way for my money is to remove the high current loads with relays and LED lighting, the use of a Mofset RR that is using switch mode technology to reduce the current that is being generated through the stator.

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Frank - lots of good banter here and on the forum regarding what you are doing. To get back to your new installation, come up with your game plan based on what you have received, sort through all the recommendations, discussions, and decide on your course of action. You can always make changes later if you are not satisfied with what you have started with. Cheers

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Location: Vista, California
Local time: July 17th, 2018, 3:58 pm
Country:  US California (US)
My Bike Models: Present Ride 1985 GL1200A
Former rides
2000 R1100RT
2005 Suzuki Bandit
1979 Yamaha XS1100
1978 Yamaha XS1100 Special
1990 Yamaha XV250
1980 Yamaha XV750
1979 Honda CB750
1968 Triumph Bonneville T120
1973 Honda CB450
1968 Harley Davidson Sportster
1974 Honda CB750
1968 Honda CL72
1999 R1100RT


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OK, charged up the motorcycle battery on a maintenance charger and verified all connections. Started the bike and tested at the battery while charging and got 14.3. Perfect!

So either I had a misread meter the first time, or the system settled into "its own" after being installed, or the ground wire had "finally" connected fully, the meter was off or I couldn't read and or remember the meter reading!

Never hurts to think about it and retest. Both the voltage readings on the voltmeters were at what I should have seen from a battery w/o chargeing ... not a problem as they are only an indication of the condition and direction of charge.

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1987 CBR1000f Naked "The Pig"
1991 CBR1000f "Red"
1998 GL1500c "Val"


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OK, charged up the motorcycle battery on a maintenance charger and verified all connections. Started the bike and tested at the battery while charging and got 14.3. Perfect!

So either I had a misread meter the first time, or the system settled into "its own" after being installed, or the ground wire had "finally" connected fully, the meter was off or I couldn't read and or remember the meter reading!

Never hurts to think about it and retest. Both the voltage readings on the voltmeters were at what I should have seen from a battery w/o chargeing ... not a problem as they are only an indication of the condition and direction of charge.

:good: :clapping: :salute:

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#15  Unread postPosted: July 11th, 2018, 8:41 am

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Location: Vista, California
Local time: July 17th, 2018, 3:58 pm
Country:  US California (US)
My Bike Models: Present Ride 1985 GL1200A
Former rides
2000 R1100RT
2005 Suzuki Bandit
1979 Yamaha XS1100
1978 Yamaha XS1100 Special
1990 Yamaha XV250
1980 Yamaha XV750
1979 Honda CB750
1968 Triumph Bonneville T120
1973 Honda CB450
1968 Harley Davidson Sportster
1974 Honda CB750
1968 Honda CL72
1999 R1100RT


Profile

Well I can say after 4 months it all still works fine.

Finding that the voltage is fine at idle without the brake light or blinkers on. The fan really pulls it down with brake lights and blinkers on but still works fine.

I think all the new and clean connections are probably the reason it works so well, the old reg/rect worked but had a lower voltage when using brake, fan etc, so probably if i had repaired / replace the original connections with new ones I probably would hae had the same result.

In any case: Recommended unit.
https://www.banggood.com/Regulator-Rect ... rehouse=CN

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