Something is not right with the timing belt replacements....

There are too many having trouble with this- including me-

'I replaced my 30-yr old belts over the weekend using Octane's excellent 'how-to'. Everything went really well- I took my 'new-to-me' bike out today for the first ride since I rode her home ( from my neighbor's house about a quarter mile). SWEET!!!
Still have the 30-yr old tires so max speed was around 25. Tomorrow she goes to get her new rubber. Just a couple of suggestions when doing the belts-
Before you take anything apart check out the way it is already put together. Check the tension of the belt on the tensioner side AND the tension on the other side. That way you have general idea of what you should have when you've done the replacement. With all the marks lined up and the new belts on I had the belts one tooth off on the non-tensioner side (too loose). When I tried to tighten it the belt just kept skipping teeth.
I ended up putting the new belt on (all timing marks lined up of course), clamping the belt to the cam sprocket with Vicegrips ( just tight enough to keep the belt from slipping a tooth). Mount the tensioner w/ spring but with loose bolts. Grab the belt on the non-tensioner side with pliers and force it over the crank sprocket so that the next tooth catches. Hold the belt on the crank sprocket to keep it from slipping then slide the belt up over the tensioner pulley. Tighten the tensioner bolts. This will give you the proper tension. I think the cam sprocket moved a little when I pushed the belt with the pliers but after I turned the engine over with the generator bolt by hand several times everything was lined up.
I'm a newbie so if this is bs let me know but it worked for me- the bike fired right up and like I said I had my first ride this AM.'

This is the most important thing you can do- IMHO-
'Before you take anything apart check out the way it is already put together. Check the tension of the belt on the tensioner side AND the tension on the other side. That way you have general idea of what you should have when you've done the replacement.'

Here's what I ran into:
'With all the marks lined up and the new belts on I had the belts one tooth off on the non-tensioner side (too loose). When I tried to tighten it the belt just kept skipping teeth.'

This is what I had:
https://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9954/camtiming1.jpg

If I had backed the belt off this is what I would have had:

https://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4062/camtiming2.jpg

This is what I used to pushed the belt over to the correct timing-

https://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4940/camtiming3.jpg

OK- NOW- THE QUESTION IS- IS THE NEW BELT TOO SHORT (TIGHT) ? OR- HAS THE OLD BELT STRETCHED AND IS TOO LONG (LOOSE) ?

And if you say I'm just doing it wrong the top of my head is going to explode and take out half the neighborhood !?!?!?!

Octane- Can you give me some much needed help? Thanks!

I've done belts quite a few times.
The first couple times I had my wife help me to hold the belts in place as I held the right cam with a wrench on the mark and installed the tensioner.
Once the tensioners were on with the springs on and the tensioner tight, valve timing would be within 1/2 a belt tooth.

Now I do belts without help. At first without tieing the wrench like Octane shows, sometimes using a knee to hold the belt against the cam pulley. Now I tie the wrench to hold that right cam and it goes together fast and always within 1/2 a tooth.

The crank pulley can be a bit tricky, not sure if the belt is seated against it sometimes.
Could that have something to do with the hard time your having Kirk?

Oh, I always install the belt with the tensioner completely removed then lift the belt with the tensioner pulley and start the bolts in to hold it. Install the spring, then tighten the bolts.

When I do the right side, I actually turn the pully clockwise to allow the belt to get its tension from the crank pulley and the spring from the cams and then I install the belt tensioner. Goes pretty quick for me. I have a harder time getting the gaskets to stay on when I put the covers back on!

Dan,

I used Octane's ziptie method (except I used a wrench instead of a spanner- whatever that is...) and everything was lined up perfectly. The belt still didn't fit. Just like I showed in the previous post- it was impossible to get the belt on by hand- so - if it is supposed to be do-able- Why couldn't I do it? And- why are so many of our bloggers screwing up their motors doing it as posted?

Kirk

mcgovern61":j0bir6wr said:

When I do the right side, I actually turn the pully clockwise to allow the belt to get its tension from the crank pulley and the spring from the cams and then I install the belt tensioner. Goes pretty quick for me. I have a harder time getting the gaskets to stay on when I put the covers back on!

Click to expand...

I forgot to mention that I do this too when setting the tension

kirkwilson":j0bir6wr said:

Dan,

I used Octane's ziptie method (except I used a wrench instead of a spanner- whatever that is...) and everything was lined up perfectly. The belt still didn't fit. Just like I showed in the previous post- it was impossible to get the belt on by hand- so - if it is supposed to be do-able- Why couldn't I do it? And- why are so many of our bloggers screwing up their motors doing it as posted?

Kirk

Click to expand...

I reread Octane's method and he says to install the tensioners then the belts.
I've never been able to do it that way because the belts will not go on the gears then on the tensioner, too tight because the tensioner doesn't move out of the way far enough.
Could there be a difference between the 1000 (in his tutorial) and an 1100? Maybe the 1000 allows enough room?
This is why I first put the belt on then while holding the belt on the cam gear install the tensioner.

I'd like to hear from the 2 members that bent valves what their mistake was so we can clear this up.

Oh, a wrench is called a spanner on the other side of the ocean.

Hey Dan-
LOL- Ted the man I bought this bike from is from England then Canada then Tampa now Tennessee- plus I belong to the nakedgoldwings.com forum that is from the UK- so the spanner thing was a joke ! Thanks for your response- as I showed in my posts the used belt and the new belt did not match up with the sprockets the same. I think that the old belt had stretched.... by about an eighth of a tooth or so- that is all I had to push the new belt over for the tooth to fall down into the sprocket. It wasn't off very much- but it was definately off. Do the belts from different manufaturers come slightly different? Or are they all to a certain spec and if they don't fit right on is something else off? I took flak on the other forum for using the pliers to push the belt over to get the right tension- As per my drawing post I wrapped electrical tape around the pliers first and I don't think I did anything that would hurt thr belt...
Kirk

yep some of the forums can get a little fat headed but i find it amusing and laugh about it :smilie_happy: oh and dont forget to tell them your laughing about it so they can laugh to or somthing else :mrgreen:

I don't give anyone flak for anything because I've seen so many methods for getting the same thing done and I'm always open to new ideas.
My philosophy is whatever works.

Belts are suppose to be made to a certain spec I suppose but I bet some are not so it could very well be the belts you got were different. With some of the crap we get from China who knows.

dan filipi":jhaau6l3 said:

Oh, a wrench is called a spanner on the other side of the ocean.

Click to expand...

Yes, and we give them names like ring spanner (box wrench) or open-ender (ahhh :?: normal wrench?) or combo (ring on one end and open on the other) then there's the "special" names that are used :evil: just b4 the big hammer comes out :smilie_happy:

OK, I'm one of the guys who bent their valves changing the timming belts. I just thought I had it right and after the engine ran like crap I checked it again, the right side was off by 1 tooth. My mistake. I did rotate the engine by hand, with the spark plugs in, but didn't notice the valves hitting Before taking it apart I marked the belt and pulleys with whiteout like someone suggested. That made reassembly much easier. also I had a friend helping me when I put it back together. This is job for more than 2 hands.