C5 using a VOES switch

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dan filipi

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I'm kicking this thread off with a picture of the device.....


The purpose of this device will be to change to a different curve automatically based on a set amount of vacuum above the throttle plate (Ported vacuum). This can be done with a simple rotary switch now but this Vacuum Operated Electric Switch will make the operation automatic.

I will be field testing with a vacuum gauge to find the vacuum at which the engine starts to lug.
At this point in vacuum, I'll set the VOES to switch to another curve.
 
This switch has a removable cap under which is an adjustment screw to 'open' a set of contacts at varying vacuum settings.
I'll be wiring in a light to come on confirming my adjustment is in fact opening the contact.
A light is not necessary for the operation, it only provides visual confirmation.
I'll need to wire in a diode to prevent any backflow of power into the grounding switch circuit.
 
Once the switch is set to switch unnoticed you can use the vac pump to see exactly what you have it set at and probably find a vac switch for that vacuum setting.
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=136963#p136963:tqwsf11a said:
slabghost » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:50 pm[/url]":tqwsf11a]
Once the switch is set to switch unnoticed you can use the vac pump to see exactly what you have it set at and probably find a vac switch for that vacuum setting.
Great idea using a vac pump, I have one.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=136967#p136967:1lueh4e0 said:
dan filipi » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:34 pm[/url]":1lueh4e0]
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=136963#p136963:1lueh4e0 said:
slabghost » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:50 pm[/url]":1lueh4e0]
Once the switch is set to switch unnoticed you can use the vac pump to see exactly what you have it set at and probably find a vac switch for that vacuum setting.
Great idea using a vac pump, I have one.

https://www.wildwestcycle.com/f_voes.html

This is the article I referenced Dan. I emailed you the link as well.
 
Good article. It also made a point I hadn't considered. And that was the possibility that vacuum could be pulled past the adjuster screw. All the more reason for finding the right setting and using a non adjustable vacuum switch.
 
Once we get some real world testing, it will be easy to share with people a recommendation.
These switches are readily available from 3-7 lbs, so once Dan tests for the best one, anyone can purchase for about $45-50.

There is a modification that we will probably end up doing. If you ride the bike hard (heavy throttle) the VOES will retard timing.
That's ok for touring or climbing a hill loaded with gear, but what if you are riding solo, on flat ground, trying to keep up with your friend?
You might not want to retard timing, because the bike would run like its chained to a tree.
We could easily install a bypass grounding switch, so during certain situations the bike would continue using the more aggressive curve.

That would allow retarded timing while climbing a long hill (coming out of a river valley) or towing a trailer, but on a short drag race from stop light to stop light you could keep using the more aggressive curve.
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=137036#p137036:1hmf4tpv said:
slabghost » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:19 pm[/url]":1hmf4tpv]
Riding hard like you describe I'd be dropping a gear so I doubt the switch would come into play.

But in a drag race you'd be upshifting, and the VOES would retard the timing automatically.
Not a big deal on a C series where the next drop is just a few degrees. However, on the M series with two curves available, we normally have a larger timing drop. That's not what you want during a short burst/hard acceleration situation.

I am generalizing, but a stripped down performance bike (cafe style) would probably be a good candidate for a bypass switch.
My CB750 does not have a switch. I have it wired to run the aggressive curve all the time.
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=137039#p137039:1kms8vx2 said:
slabghost » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:33 pm[/url]":1kms8vx2]
Good point. Could put in a bypass switch. I ride aggressive but never really drag raced.

All you would do is install an "ON-OFF" switch just before the VOES.
Someone who rides conservatively or just for touring would not need it.
 
With the "m" Paul is there only one wire to ground to get the retarded timing circuit ? If so I would personally prefer a cheap micro toggle switch for those rare occasions where the retarded circuit is required. With the "C" series I always envisioned a micro changeover switch as it seems like only 2 curves were required out of the 4 in most cases.
 
people who have 1200 in stock form as i understand it ...has a gear selector switch to the dread black ignition box that totally wipe out any advance in 4th and 5th gear ...personally i think this has to really hurt performance of the bike especially standard bike or striped down dressers ...because the rare occasion you ignition retarded is totally full time ...when i had Vs standard here to ride as well as hooch 1200 mod bike there simply was no comparison...it seems honda was going after something in the 1200 motor an carb rack ..1200 head ports of smaller size and cam setup that fought against the low end torque they wanted ....

i dont want to make this sound like a discount ... but i have been aware of this deal of fixed advance ...and it seems to me the theory of retarding at cruising speed is somewhat over blown ...to be honest ive never really had hooch in load situation the motor has always pulled hard ... i personally would rather have a switch ..like brian has ....and when the situation comes along where i think its need a turn of the switch is all that is require ...but i am very interested as to the results of this...and i also feel if one put this on a stock 1200 bike it might be needed as i feel honda really got things wrong with the 1200...brian testimony on the 1100 stock motor indicates its helps big time but also says switch was easy to deal with ....just thoughts here guys nothing else .... :popcorn:
 
I realize some may not like the idea of an auto switch or would rather have all manual but personal preference is not the topic of this thread so let's try to keep posts related to using a VOES :thanks:

Slabghost gave me an idea to drop the C5 to one spark which may help me feel more load on the engine to find that point in vacuum where it should switch to the other curve.
Hopefully I'll have some riding time this weekend to try this.
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=137049#p137049:184187o9 said:
Ansimp » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:24 am[/url]":184187o9]
With the "m" Paul is there only one wire to ground to get the retarded timing circuit ? If so I would personally prefer a cheap micro toggle switch for those rare occasions where the retarded circuit is required. With the "C" series I always envisioned a micro changeover switch as it seems like only 2 curves were required out of the 4 in most cases.

That is correct. One lead to worry about (our British and Harley dual fire kits also have one lead).
The VOES will allow safe operation under load with no rider input. Installing a toggle is simple, but I've forgotten to switch back and finished my ride using the "softer" timing curve.
 
I will be installing a C5 in the future and I am really interested in this mod! If I understand it correctly, this mod will do what Brian did with using his switch climbing mountain roads fully loaded?
 
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