ATF density for the fork?

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JoeBarTeam

JoeBarTeam

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hi oldwing-fans
haynes and honda tell to take ATF for the forks but ATF says nothing about density and i would like to have the same density like before. how can i manage this?
greez
joebarteam
 
Most ATF is 30 weight oil, tho some of the newer formulas are in the 10-20 wt range. ANY atf will be fine for fork oil, imo.
 
you see we move from 5 to 30 and no one knows exactly how to identify. honda doesn't tell anything more than to take ATF and the amount of it. that's all. maybe has someone experience with fork oil and may tell whitch SAE # behaves in the fork as OEM.
greez
joebarteam
 
I can’t offer any info on what weight oil Honda originally intended be used, other than I tried 20 wt fork oil in mine and it was too harsh with Progressive springs, compared to the cheapest Dexron ATF I could find. The ATF was definately thinner viscosity than the 20 wt.
 
thnx dan. that's a good information! still open from 5 to 15 SAE. i'l still have the original springs after 32 years but only 82000kms. they are ok, no issues riding slow, fast or scratching pegs on the road. i keep the air pressure on top for better cornering and this makes the bike a little harder but but enough comfortable. so i need just to know what # SAE i should take for the forks to keep the status quo. :) i think it could be #10.
greez
joebarteam
 
then i will try with #10. i'll tell after a ride if the fork behaves right.
greez
 
It appears that ATF viscosity is a variable amount due the specifications of the automobile specifications, also the ATF materials are different from different auto manufacturers. Article below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic ... sion_fluid

The 'density' measurement doesn't appear to be the 'criteria' of ATF. nor really the viscosity, per se.

The following link explains the difference between the two
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-relat ... ty-Explain
From above the thing that I would point out is "Density remains essentially the same with temperature of a liquid ,but viscosity generally changes quite dramatically with temperature."

Most of the ATF spec.s do focus on the viscosity characteristics. One of the other forums I frequent went through this before and the 'Readers Digest' version was that there is no correlation from 'oils' to ATF, primarily because ATF isn't an oil. ATF is a 'special' fluid that is a formulation of many different materials to provide the characteristics that the auto manufacturer requires.

All the above is as I read the material. One point in the research stated ATF is best described as a multi-viscosity fluid, it is designed that way for the application. Which begs the question, did Honda want that variability? As another last note, Progressive states to use fork oil with it's springs, that's what I run and find it acceptable. As a note the bike is almost always at 'capacity' or worse. The different feels of the suspension are greatly influenced by this 'load'.

A chart listing different 'fork oil' specs
https://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycle/fork-oil.html
 
Interesting point about using "Fork oil" instead of ATF. Since the forks need so little, it makes sense to just use it. A quart would do what...2 changes?


Edited to correct my error.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=206203#p206203:3v1cel9d said:
PurpleGL1200I » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:13 am[/url]":3v1cel9d]
I run ATF and don't worry about density. ATF is "about" 10 weight.
Click to expand...
That’s what I have always believed. Recently I was talking to an old school motorcycle mechanic and he was doing his fork oil about every 10K miles and he said you won’t believe his crappy it looks.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=206242#p206242:3d7fsht1 said:
Ansimp » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:47 pm[/url]":3d7fsht1]
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=206203#p206203:3d7fsht1 said:
PurpleGL1200I » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:13 am[/url]":3d7fsht1]
I run ATF and don't worry about density. ATF is "about" 10 weight.
Click to expand...
That’s what I have always believed. Recently I was talking to an old school motorcycle mechanic and he was doing his fork oil about every 10K miles and he said you won’t believe how crappy the old oil looks.
Click to expand...
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=206242#p206242:4ur3ir1z said:
Ansimp » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:47 am[/url]":4ur3ir1z]
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=206203#p206203:4ur3ir1z said:
PurpleGL1200I » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:13 am[/url]":4ur3ir1z]
I run ATF and don't worry about density. ATF is "about" 10 weight.
Click to expand...
That’s what I have always believed. Recently I was talking to an old school motorcycle mechanic and he was doing his fork oil about every 10K miles and he said you won’t believe his crappy it looks.
Click to expand...
I know when I have changed my fork oil (ATF) after a 8-10K miles, it is no longer red. It comes out black and much thicker.
 
Each front fork on the Gl1200 needss almost 11 ounces, so you get about 1.5 changes from a quart. The black appearance is caused by suspended dirt and aluminum particles. The suspended particles increase the viscosity, accelerate wear of rubber and metallic components and is a good indication it's time to change it.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=206257#p206257:212jdgrz said:
PurpleGL1200I » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:07 am[/url]":212jdgrz]
Each front fork on the Gl1200 needss almost 11 ounces, so you get about 1.5 changes from a quart. The black appearance is caused by suspended dirt and aluminum particles. The suspended particles increase the viscosity, accelerate wear of rubber and metallic components and is a good indication it's time to change it.
Click to expand...
:yes: :good:
 
Back in 2004, I rebuilt the forks on a new-to-me '77 GL1000 and used BelRa 10 weight fork oil. I did a paint cup drip time test on it, and also on Dexron ATF. I've used ATF ever since.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=206290#p206290:g36o40ob said:
pidjones » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:48 pm[/url]":g36o40ob]
Back in 2004, I rebuilt the forks on a new-to-me '77 GL1000 and used BelRa 10 weight fork oil. I did a paint cup drip time test on it, and also on Dexron ATF. I've used ATF ever since.
Click to expand...
:good:
 
i recently replaced the fork seals on my blue 75. bought the Honda 10 weight fork oil .
also fitted new progressive springs. it seemed very stiff at first. i put that down to the new springs.
after running it for a while i decided to re visit the steering bearings, re tensioned and re greased them.
on a whim i took Ansimp's advice and changed the fork oil to ATF.
the difference is noticeable, slightly softer action and i think slightly smoother as well.

on another note, Randakk recommends 160 mm of free space above the oil as an alternative to measuring oil
for each leg. ( GL 1000 forks )
this method would seem to be far far too much oil. i added the manuals amount and measured free space. well
over 220 mm.
i put in what the manual specifies. Randakk is yet to reply to questions.
yet another bit of misinformation, it would seem.
 

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