A topic about main and rod bearings

[dan filipi]

So I have 2 engines I'm going to eventually build into one good one, my runner is a knocker so I need to gather more info what to look for.

I was going through my forum backups and came across pics of rod and main bearings from one of the engines I had split open way back.
I can't say for sure which engine these pics are from but for this discussion I want to talk about condition of bearings in general to learn meself more about them.

Ok. First pic is Crank bearings:
What can you tell me about how these look?
Are they done because copper is visible?
The crank journal is showing signs of scoring I see.
Can the crank be reusable with NO machining?

This pic is #1 rod bearing face.
How about this bearing. Does it have time left on it?

This is the back side.
What are we seeing here?
Does the discoloration (streaking) mean anything?
I'd have to see if I still have them to see what the heck that white dot is.

To what point are these bearings "serviceable"?
I mean, are they done when even just a trace of "copper" is visible like the #1 rod bearing or is there some other way to judge them?

I think it's called "babbet" on the bearing face.
What is that material?
Is it extremely hard or is it soft?

 

[steveb123]

On a normal engine I wouldn't even consider reusing those bearings...or any bearing, for that matter, that had any sign of wear.

Engine rebuilds are labour intensive, and (save for pistons) parts cheap.
For the amoumt of work involved in making it right, go for new wear parts.

That crank will need grinding as well.

Now: Goldwing's don't seem to be normal engines, as bearings don't seem to be available! WTF is up with that!

First order of business is to secure a source of bearings, and then figure out your options. If it is fresh stock size bearings on a good, unscored crank, so be it. BTDT on other engines, worked fine.

 

[backlander]

+1 on what steve said. Due to the cost of the bearings and machine work involved I think I would get me a plastigage kit and see what clearances I had to deal with on the crank and rod bearings. The last time I looked, Wingovations over in the UK had OEM rod and main bearings in all the different color codes. Expensive, around 20 bucks for each main and 25-30 bucks for each rod. The crank you have will have to be repaired first to know how it mic's out and then cross-ref that over to figure out which color code bearings you would need. Hastings makes rings that will work I understand. It might be good to know the bearing specs on rods and mains on each color before taking the crank to machine shop so they would know what their limitations are how much they can remove on each journal to make sure you can get the proper bearing. After plastigageing , you might find that not all of them need to done, just depends on how much money you want to spend.

 

[WindNWing]

We haven't seen the crankshaft close enough. There's a possibility that the journals aren't hurt, you would have to polish and then check the sizes and finish to determine serviceability. Yeah, the bearings are shot.
As a machinist I have poured and machined babbit bearings. The babbit is a soft material much like lead.

 

[dan filipi]

WindNWing » Fri May 24, 2013 12:20 pm[/url]":2hj4nj29]We haven't seen the crankshaft close enough. There's a possibility that the journals aren't hurt, you would have to polish and then check the sizes and finish to determine serviceability.
As a machinist I have poured and machined babbit bearings. The babbit is a soft material much like lead.

Poured and machined aye?

Can they be machined thicker, say if the journal is ground?
Know what I'm driving at, right?

 

[joedrum]

now mike that was an answer ....bang

 

[WindNWing]

dan filipi » Fri May 24, 2013 3:24 pm[/url]":lmot6sfa]
Poured and machined aye?

Can they be machined thicker, say if the journal is ground?
Know what I'm driving at, right?

Dan, I know what you're driving at but in this case the babbit is just a coating on the bearings. The only fix is to replace the bearings.
I was talking about cast iron housings that had poured babbit bearings. They could be melted out, re-poured and machined back to origional specs.

 

[dan filipi]

WindNWing » Fri May 24, 2013 12:36 pm[/url]":k2a2w47a]

dan filipi » Fri May 24, 2013 3:24 pm[/url]":k2a2w47a]
Poured and machined aye?

Can they be machined thicker, say if the journal is ground?
Know what I'm driving at, right?

Dan, I know what you're driving at but in this case the babbit is just a coating on the bearings. The only fix is to replace the bearings.
I was talking about cast iron housings that had poured babbit bearings. They could be melted out, re-poured and machined back to origional specs.

Well OK then, strike that idea Lol.

Hey, all information helps. Especially when it's easy to understand :salute:

 

[Steve83]

According to the manual, the crankshaft can't be machined due to surface treatment, but this may just be Honda wanting to sell crankshafts. I got all my main bearings, and the left side rod bearings at Babbitt's (hondapartshouse.com). The right side rod bearings don't have oil holes, and seem hard to find. That's the white spot you see on your bearing pic, the rod does have a squirt hole, but the bearing doesn't, so there's a mark.

What I'm thinking of trying is using the bottom rod bearings from 2 engines, since they show practically no wear. Once I get the '82 I'm working on finished up, I hope to start on my '83 engine build. I think I have everything I need except those right side rod bearings...

I've seen specs for bearing clearances, and the different thickness of the new bearings (by color code), but I haven't found what the crankshaft journal diameter should be. Anybody know this number? Maybe if all 4 journals measure the same, you're OK??...

 

[mcgovern61]

Steve83 » Fri May 24, 2013 2:51 pm[/url]":1dzd40v5]According to the manual, the crankshaft can't be machined due to surface treatment, but this may just be Honda wanting to sell crankshafts.

When I looked into this for my '81 engine, I was told the same thing by the machine shops. I am not a machinist, but it was my understanding that the crank is "nitrided"? (Not sure)

+1 on the bearings...they are shot!

(More pics of the "Knocker" opened up in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=56923#p56923 )

 

[backlander]

Found this over on goldwingdocs. Could be useful. They listed the 1000 and then the 1100 codes for rods and mains.https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9766

 

[backlander]

In post #10, Beesharp measured the crank journals on a 1100 and found them to be 1.891 He also showed a color reference chart.https://www.forum.classicgoldwings.com/v ... =23&t=3170

 

[joedrum]

okay imnot letting the BS get any weight here ....Honda and all manufactures knuckle under gov control and dump owner support ...theres no coating cranks or valves that prvent them from being machine period ....that's like saying a coat of Kevlar paint is going to syop a bullet ...just pure bs to the 100% level .....total deception period ....this is all in the attempt to keep people from doing stuff to there own property ....manufactors and gov should arrested for ganging up on customers for not supplying parts for there products period ....

in this day of total neglect to the owners of older products ...one has to to figure that info is going to be 100% misleading and useless ....

putting new parts at super high cost like bearing ...one would be really gambleing on the crank not destroying the rebuild ...

if the bike has red bearing and was knocking or just wore ...its not a rebuild ...its patched up ....this is the heart of the Goldwing ...it cant be done to the fullest unless it is .....

as mike said turn the crank to a bearing size that one should able to get ...not and rebuild anything less is something else ...

in this area oldwings are slaughtered by the gov and honda stripping the rights from the people to fix there bikes and making them throw away products that cant be fixed ....but who knows ...oldwingers like us may come up with a way to beat the goliath beast of the gov regs and laws to to kill off these bikes ....

I hate to Honda bash but its totally call for :cheeky: :mrgreen: