Clutch Conversion.

[David Mantle]

Hi , for those who followed my thread about stater motor problems you may be aware that I started to drift off topic and onto a clutch conversion using 1200 parts.

The 1200 large rear engine case arrived today and it is a perfect fit onto the 1100 cases.

Can`t wait for the clutch bits to arrive next. However I do have a clutch cover from a later year 1200 but not the 1984 one - and it does not line up at all , all the holes are way off line. Since the large end cover that is from the 1984 1200 engine fits - is it possible for other years to also fit the 1100 crankcases?

I find it hard to believe that Honda would have redesigned the engine so much that it would make fitting the large rear case a non starter. I do think that they could have made the clutch outer piece differently and thus made them year specific but not the entire engines. The amount of work would , in my opinion , be unnecessary . This would entail new crankcases which would mean that the 1200 engine could have been prevented from fitting the 1100 frame. Since there are a few members with 1200 engines in 1100 frames then I see no reason why the large rear case would not fit the 1100 engine

If this is the case then I see no reason why the conversion to hydraulic clutch operation should be confined to using 1984 parts only. Since the later clutch parts are more readily available could this be a route that others can take, instead of just using the circular cover that holds the hydraulic mechanism why not use the entire rear end instead?

 

[slabghost]

I suppose it's possible later year 1200 case covers will fit but I do not know if they will. I've never heard of anyone trying.The 84 clutch cover is recommended for this conversion because it's the only year the bolt holes line up the same as the 1100 clutch covers. Later years the pattern was very different. So with that being an 84 case it can use the 84 hydraulic clutch or the earlier 1100 clutch mechanisms. If you do fit a later year 1200 cover and clutch assembly please do a nice write up and show us pictures. You may well be the first to try it. You are the first I know of anyway.

 

[David Mantle]

I am hoping to find a later year large cover in the UK rather from the States where I know I shall be able to locate one. This is simply because the postage would make it a prohibitive and thus an unnecessarily expensive experiment .

All the information I have got so far seems to concentrate on the circular cover that holds the hydraulic mechanism . Should I be able to find a later Large Engine cover then I will inform everyone as to the result. But please be patient - these are not readily available over here - and when are can be a little pricey.

 

[slabghost]

I quite understand and will patiently wait. Very interesting idea.

 

[dan filipi]

All I can really offer so far is the 1200 clutch is larger which I think makes the whole pack taller and wider.

Far as I know everything will line up though.

I frequent most of the Goldwing forums but have never read if the clutch covers will swap over from later years.
The only suggestion I can offer there is if you know someone locally with a later model you could compare.

 

[David Mantle]

If the difference is that the 1200 clutch is bigger than that fitted to the 1100 then so long as the holes line up then I see very few problems. If the reverse were true then I would have to swap clutch baskets , if it were possible.
Once again I will get back to you all once I have sourced the case

 

[joedrum]

well the facts are ...your 84 1200 clutch cover will bolt right on the 1100 giving the lightest clutch pull you can get period ...why want the bigger cover ...its pluses are if you use all the 1200 stuff you could get then...bigger clutch...either 11 or 19% better oil flow and you could have bigger stator but that involves lots more parts than just covers ....heck if it was me id put the hydro clut and all on the 1100 and try it ...hand fatiuge was what you started as the reason for wanting to switch 1200 hdro clutch cover and lever on 1100 clutch

 

[David Mantle]

well the facts are ...your 84 1200 clutch cover will bolt right on the 1100 giving the lightest clutch pull you can get period ...why want the bigger cover ...its pluses are if you use all the 1200 stuff you could get then...bigger clutch...either 11 or 19% better oil flow and you could have bigger stator but that involves lots more parts than just covers ....heck if it was me id put the hydro clut and all on the 1100 and try it ...hand fatiuge was what you started as the reason for wanting to switch 1200 hdro clutch cover and lever on 1100 clutch

I understand where you are coming from but the idea behind this thread is to try and expand options for the hydraulic clutch by using parts other than those restricted to the 1984 engine

 

[joedrum]

im sorry dave i didnt see the pics and actual question you were wondering about ....sad to say honda did rework the 1200 rear cover .....the 1200 rear motor covers 85-87 will not fit the 1100 motor at all ...they have no accomidation for the rear ignition on the 1100 ... it will totaly not work at all dave i dont have pic to put up to show but i do have all the talked about parts here and do know it wont work

 

[dan filipi]

That's right, I forgot about the ignition.
All years 1100 then up to 84 1200 it's on the back of the motor in the same place. 85 and up is on the front.

 

[David Mantle]

Thanks for this information regarding location of ignition. You are right - I have done some reading on the subject and looked at a couple of local bikes an 1986 and 1988 1200`s. Looks like Honda spoilt the party .

Has anyone ever moved the ignition from the rear to the front on the 1100?
( I`m a stubborn sod who refuses to lie down without a fight )

 

[slabghost]

You could use 1000 heads and cams and relocate ignition to the left head. I don't know if a 1200 ignition could be fitted to an 1100 up front but it might.

 

[joedrum]

im thinking that the 1200 ignition is not as good as 1100 ignition ....there is casting of new screw holes up front next to crank pulley the 1100 dosnt have for 1200 ignition to bolt to....

 

[David Mantle]

Somewhere I read that a power boost can be gained by using early 1000 heads and cams but not sure of year. Somewhere in the deep recess of my mind something like 1976 or 77 heads spring to mind but am not certain.

The whole idea of this thread is to try and find a way of hydraulic conversion of the 1100 without being restricted to 1984 parts only . Looks like it is possible so long as ignition is taken care of by using the 1000 heads. Only problem ,might be the fact that the earlier heads used points ignition instead of the later contact less system. Still that would not be insurmountable but not sure if that would be an advantage or not . Considering that a few years ago one of the ignition units packed up on me whilst touring Scotland and left me stranded in the middle of nowhere :crying: :rant: this could be a route I might go down .

Looks like my next objective would be to try and locate the right heads for the job. Who says I`m not up for a challenge LOL

 

[slabghost]

Any of the 1000 heads will work on 1100's. All can use points or be fitted with after market electronic ignitions. Cams differ in lift and duration after 77. A lot of modification is possible among the flat four wing motors.

 

[dan filipi]

It seems like the focus has been to swap covers that already have a hydraulic clutch. What about fitting a hydraulic cylinder to the original cover or even the frame?
It could actuate the clutch ARM where the cable now connects.

 

[David Mantle]

I have used a pit bike clutch actuator that PULLS the cable arm - no real gain in reduction of hand power but it did make the action smoother. Only problem was it failed after a few months - it was not man enough for the job. To install a 1200 cylinder to a standard clutch cover would involve machining - not that I can not do that but the whole object of this thread is to find a BOLT on solution that we all can benefit from . Mounting an actuator on the frame is a thought I discounted ages ago because It is not easy finding an easy solution to something that PULLS the arm rather than one that pushes it. It would have to pull bearing in mind that to mount it on the frame the actuator would be below the arm rather than above thus pull is the objective rather than push. :hi:

 

[David Mantle]

I found this whilst trawling fleabay :- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/75-76-77-78-7 ... 5ae603d805

Is it correct that both heads are identical? :read: :nea: :thanks:

 

[David Mantle]

Forget above post - the part numbers ARE identical and therefore swap over.

 

[David Mantle]

The clutch cover and slave cylinder arrived today - everything bolts together correctly. I have not tried to look for a later case as yet so am unsure about compatibility of the early and late rear engine covers. IF they are swappable then I see NO reason why they can not be used on the 1100 engines as well.
This leaves the question over the removal of the ignition from the rear of the engine. The solution is a lot easier than you think. I have been able to locate the ignition assembly from a GL1000 , this bolts onto the rear of the left cylinder head. The camshafts will fit both engines - cams from the 1000 motor that is - using those from the 1975/6 motor should enable a power gain because of the high lift specification.

My original quest was to find alternative options for a hydraulic clutch that BOLTS straight on to the GL1100 motor that does not rely purely on parts from the 1984 engine.
Since these parts are in relatively short supply my solution would be to source :- Rear engine case from later year - clutch slave cylinder from any year ( they are interchangeable over the GL1200 range ) - ignition parts that bolt onto the rear of left hand head , either points or later contact-less system - plus the cams ( ideally earlier engines but later 1000 just as good but not discernible gain compared to 75/6/7 cams )

I hope this information is useful to other forum members and , as I said about rear engine case , this should be a non machining option that uses standard Honda parts. :hi: