Copper head gaskets?

[David Mantle]

Has anyone made head gaskets out of soft copper sheet? Many old British motorcycles used this material instead of the OEM that Honda supply and one of its great strengths is that it can be re-annealed and reused .

 

[Ansimp]

Normally Dave you have electrolysis between copper and alloy, so I wouldn't be prepared to try it on the GWs.

 

[David Mantle]

I had not thought of that - thanks.

 

[joedrum]

hmmm be great to figure how to make one ....im all for it :mrgreen:

 

[David Mantle]

Joe - I think anyone with a CNC machine should be able to copy a gasket and watercut one out of 1 mm copper. Just not sure of the feasibility of it. As Ansimp mentions electrolysis because of the dissimilar metals could cause long term problems.Is this because of the water? or simply copper/aluminum? I know steel and aluminium do not like mixing and do have corrosion problems but copper? I use copperslip grease to prevent corrosion with steel. Would shim thickness soft aluminum gaskets be feasible ?

If you remember a while ago I suggested oil cooling for the same ends and after researching I have noticed quite a few members with head gasket problems - I am one of them. Some old posts look into using alternative supplies of gaskets instead of Honda OEM simply on the cost issue. Maybe copper - even though initial costs might be more expensive - could be the solution . After all it should allow top end rebuilds ( for tuning purposes ) or simple strip downs to take place with some savings in time and money. Even though i have had few problems since rebuilding my ride I am looking into obtaining another engine assembly to play with.

 

[dan filipi]

I wouldn't think copper to aluminum would corrode.
Brass is similar to copper isn't it? The jets are brass.
The exhaust crush washers are copper, no problem there.
In fact the case bolts and every other engine bolt is steel, no problems there.
I think dissimilar metals is a non issue.

 

[slabghost]

I've been looking for copper sheeting to try this for over a year now. I figure with a light coat of coppercoat spray gasket sealer they should last indefinitely. But every supplier I've found so far have too thin stock or too small sheet size to try it.

 

[David Mantle]

I even approached Randakk's Cycle Shakk but he is not agreeable .

His response is :-"I've tried that on my supercharged GL1000. I do not recommend. It created very hard to resolve nuisance coolant leaks. You must also machine "oring" grooves in the head and/or block ...very difficult!I eventually went back to stock head gaskets"

I do not doubt the man , after all he is one of the greats where Wings are concerned , but I feel that this could be doable . After all my signature says that nothing gives me greater pleasure then to do what others say can not be done. "

 

[mcgovern61]

Copper and aluminum are a bad mix with coolant anywhere nearby. They will corrode easily!

 

[Ansimp]

We have had copper coins here in Oz and if you drop them in an alloy boat they will eventually eat holes through the bottom of the boat. Brass is totally different to copper that's why electrolysis is not an issue.

 

[dan filipi]

David Mantle » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:11 am[/url]":3ej1lpg3]
I even approached Randakk's Cycle Shakk but he is not agreeable .

His response is :-"I've tried that on my supercharged GL1000. I do not recommend. It created very hard to resolve nuisance coolant leaks. You must also machine "oring" grooves in the head and/or block ...very difficult!I eventually went back to stock head gaskets"

I do not doubt the man , after all he is one of the greats where Wings are concerned , but I feel that this could be doable . After all my signature says that nothing gives me greater pleasure then to do what others say can not be done. "

Well interesting a copper head gasket was brought up here.
At this link a copper head gasket is clearly on this block.
Also interesting is that I asked him about it a couple years, if he's working on a copper gasket replacement, he told me it was not a copper head gasket at all.
Sure looks like one to me or am I seeing things?
I just found it odd that he'd use a picture, not of a conventional head gasket in his tutorial there.

 

[AApple]

The image I see appears to be of a copper gasket, too, BUT...it might also be a regular gasket with a copper coating on it.
Solid copper for head gaskets only works if you plan on removing the heads often...like between every round at the drag strip. Flat copper "shim" gaskets do not seal well over large areas, and use for a compression chamber does require an o-ring type seal. On race engines, there is a groove machined into both the block and the head, and stainless steel wire is used for the o-ring....it gets tapped down into the grooves, and that is what actually seals compression. Water, or coolant will tend to leak unless the coolant passages are similarly sealed with some type of embossing, or o-ringing.
Flat copper doesn't compress very well at all, but it will if it is folded, such as the exhaust seals on our 'Wings...they are compressible in that configuration.

Think aboot it...we have a hard enough time getting a good seal with compressible paper/steel laminate gaskets, with stainless steel fire-rings around the combustion chambers.... :builder:

 

[NCScooter]

I saw this on the portal page and immediately thought that you would have to be real careful working with them. All depends on where you're from.

copperhead

• NCScooter
• Jul 29, 2013

 

[joedrum]

that's good penty of those around here

 

[NCScooter]

I would offer that you could make them out of aluminum, if the object is to have them reusable, you would need an extra ring to go right around the cylinder and replace it each time you reused them. Probably not practical in the grand scheme of things. Just thinking.

 

[slabghost]

For me the goal is not reusable. But to last as long as the motor.

 

[Randakk]

Asked and answered.

I have had copper head gaskets made (easy).

Prepping the head and/or block ....challenging.

They do create nuisance coolant leaks that I was not willing to live with.

So, I do not recommend cooper head gaskets for street machines ...even with supercharging.

Other "experts" agree with me on this point ....notably Jeff Hartman author of the well-regarded 2011 book: "Supercharging Performance Handbook."

 

[joedrum]

well I know for sure there has to be something that can be used .....the rip off price will force something out ...I for one can just look a head gasket and obviously tell theres nothing to them and a huge ripoff ...let alone ive seen no gaskets cut right ....head gasket quality and fit is at the bottom of the barrel

 

[mcgovern61]

Randakk » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:19 am[/url]":q6esa2v0]
Asked and answered.

I have had copper head gaskets made (easy).

Prepping the head and/or block ....challenging.

They do create nuisance coolant leaks that I was not willing to live with.

So, I do not recommend cooper head gaskets for street machines ...even with supercharging.

Other "experts" agree with me on this point ....notably Jeff Hartman author of the well-regarded 2011 book: "Supercharging Performance Handbook."

Thanks for the input Randall!

 

[BikerJoe]

David Mantle » July 27th, 2013, 2:47 am[/url]":j96s2nyu]
Has anyone made head gaskets out of soft copper sheet? Many old British motorcycles used this material instead of the OEM that Honda supply and one of its great strengths is that it can be re-annealed and reused .

Used them many years ago we coated em with Indian Head Cement worked fine.