Engine is froze

[sturglc]

As I mentioned in my intro post my bike has sat for years and the last 3 years with the carbs OFF with the heads getting filled with water.
This is bad and I know it's bad, I'm just wondering how bad.

I finally got around to getting the thing up on the center stand (my God a GW is HEAVY!) and lo and behold after 3 years exposed my engine is frozen solid.

Now I am hoping it is just the valves-they are thoroughly rusted. Two of the valves were closed and still had water standing in them, so I doubt any water got into the cylinder on those two, but the other two were open and I know water got into the cylinder. I am hoping some cleaning/scruffing and the cylinder will be okay, but the valves are finished.

Someone told me (on another forum) that GoldWing heads "never, ever get ground"?? I kinda doubt just lapping them is gonna help.
I really wont know till I tear em apart, but I don't see these valves being salvageable at this point. If I do have new valves and seals installed, doesn't it follow that I have the heads ground to match?

Anyways, I guess my main question is that stuck/rusted valves would more than likely be the main reason my engine is froze? Like I said, I doubt a lot of damage was done to the cylinders, and the water that got in the two stayed on top of the pistons (my oil is fresh as a daisy)

 

[dan filipi]

Hmm. I wouldn't assume anything until the heads are off.
These cylinders are pretty tough but could be badly rusted under those conditions.

The heads and even the valves could be ok.
Only way to know is pull the heads and don't commit to buying anything until then.

 

[sturglc]

True enough! I'm hoping to get the heads off this week and I'll know more. I'm really not wanting to tear into the bottom half if I don't have to.

 

[slabghost]

Yes remove the heads and check out the bore in each cylinder. If not badly pitted they can be derusted.

 

[joedrum]

most likely the bottom end is fine ...to the point that parts are availible for lower end ...honda is crappy like most of today corporation and trys to kill off its previous bikes in non support policy of parts....but most oldwings are very sound in lower end and with the few miles of this bike its probably sound .... and dont get to upset if the cylinder on the low side look bad ...ive had several turn out to be good runners if cleaned up right

 

[dan filipi]

Yeah I was just thinking there's just no way to derust the valves and seats with the heads in place.
Well no way I can say would be adequate enough.
Just trying to figure a way to do this without having to buy head gaskets but I suspect the freeze of the engine is rust at the piston rings and should be looked at no matter what since you have no water in the oil. That tells me the rust could be only at top of the cylinder and with care maybe cleanable and prevent damage to any rings.
I wouldn't try turning the engine until the heads are off for this reason. Don't want rust grinding away at the rings.

 

[dan filipi]

Oh also I would not try to break the engine free like suggested on some forums by forcing it in any way. This can easily lead to damaged rings.
Get the heads off and hopefully the pistons are down off top center which would mean lesser rust to deal with......hopefully.

 

[sturglc]

I was wondering if I could take the timing belts off and try to turn the engine and that would tell me if it was valves/pistons, but in the end I'm gonna have to pull the heads anyways even if it's just to lapp and clean.

Edit: everything is soaking in transmission fluid right now.

 

[slabghost]

good idea to soak the parts in tranny fluid.

 

[sturglc]

Speaking of soaking stuff: Anyone got any advise on what to soak the brakes parts in. The calipers and master cylinders are heavily corroded and froze. At this point I can't get them apart to even think about rebuilding. I don't know if they are gonna be salvageable or not but I would like to get apart to see how bad the bores are.

I was gonna try transmission fluid and if that failed some of the carb dip from NAPA-I know it will eat all the rubber away, but they need a complete rebuild anyways.

 

[joedrum]

it will free up when you can get at it and do it in the most talented way of cleaning it without doing any harm at all to it all is the game here....no carb dip.....put a greese gun on the bleeder and pump the piston out ...on single piston calipers ice never seen it fail...and it safe to ...once apart clean it with brake fluid

 

[dan filipi]

Can't remember for sure the stuff steve83 was using for rust removal. Evaporust maybe?
Sounds like good stuff. Did an awesome job on one of his gas tanks.
I would hit those brake cylinders with PB Blaster every couple hours.

I have some carb dip. The stuff aint what it used to be.
Wasted too much money on a gallon of it.

 

[sturglc]

I use Nut Buster from K-Chem Inc.
It is hands down the best stuff I have ever used but at 15.00 a can I can only afford it because my boss at work gives me a generous spending allowance :mrgreen:

Speaking of carb dip, the last gallon I bought from NAPA came in a can with a lid that was PAINTED on the INSIDE. Do you know what the stuff does to paint? So yeah, I had a gallon of dip that was full of paint residue..

 

[Steve83]

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ATTEMPT TURNING THE ENGINE UNTIL THE VALVES WILL CLOSE!!! If it has had standing water in the cylinders and/or intake ports for several years, you have serious rust! More than likely, the intake valves are stuck to the guides, the rings are stuck in their grooves, and the cylinders with the open valves are heavily rusted. If the valves are stuck open, they will bend when you turn the engine! I know this all sounds like gloom and doom, but it's not - it all can probably be saved.

The heads should come off to clean things up properly, but first I would remove the cams so all 4 exhaust valves are closed. Simply backing off the adjusters might let them close - depending on the cam position. Fill the cylinders and intake ports with ATF and let it sit for several days, if not weeks. Work on the brakes, gas tank, etc. while they soak. Suck the ATF out, buy a gallon of Evapo-Rust and fill the cylinders/ports with it. Let it soak for several days - it works wonders!

The valve seate can be ground if needed. The Honda manual (in the Gallery) shows the proper angles to cut, but the valves should not. I've saved some badly rusted valves, so don't give up! Patience is rule #1 here!

This one cleaned up nicely. I just can't find an "after" pic...

 

[sturglc]

Steve, ouch...if those valves cleaned up then there is hope for mine

 

[sturglc]

Well, started tearing the heads apart and while the heads and valves are not too bad (at least fixable) the cylinder walls look pretty bad.
Hard to see in the pics but there is a lot of built up rust at the top of the walls. I'll get some of that rust converter and try cleaning and what ever honing I can do, but it does not look good at this point. I only got one side off today-30 degree weather is a pain to work in.


Rusty but should clean up okay.

Top side is clean

Valves will hold gas so they are seating. Will try wire brushing, lapping and new seals

Hard to see in pics (darn old phone) but they are no bueno. Front cylinder is not bad, but rear (the valve that was open) is heavily flaked and unfortunately no where near the end of it's stroke. Lots of junk in there, leaves, yes...leaves :doh: so we'll see once I get it cleaned.

 

[slabghost]

Try cleaning the cylinders with a chore boy pot scrubber pad and trans fluid. Still a chance the pitting isn't bad. Once the cylinder walls are cleaned coat them with grease or vaseline to prevent any further rust.

 

[joedrum]

your in good shape here beleave me that not that bad from what i can see ...pitting on the bottom side is also sellf filling too and can actualy not hurt a thing or be somewhat better at a certain level of pitting ... that last part is just opinon .... looks like a runner to me

 

[AApple]

Heads are definitely serviceable, from the pics. Cylinder walls....kinda iffy for me. Once you get them cleaned a little you should be able to tell a lot more about the actual condition. I have seen worse on auto engines, so.....fingers crossed! :beg:

 

[dan filipi]

How this engine is broken free will determine the compression and if it's a oil burner.

Lots of soaking and patience to prevent damage to the rings.