New topic for discussion

[Terry]

With all the sorry gasoline and virtually no non ethanol fuel stations in my area I have been pondering options.
Personally, I use different products which seems to stabilize ethanol gasoline.
Why don't oil companies include additives to stabilize fuel for say a year in the price?
I have began to trust the recommendation of ATF for a fuel system cleaner but assume it does not stabilize ethanol fuels.
I have heard but don't have any proof that high quality 2 stroke oils can stabilize fuel and clean as well.
Has any one tried Av gas? Is the octane too high? I know it costs more.
Is it anymore stabile?
Doesn't aviation fuel contain lead additives similar to old regular and premium or ethyl (non-unleaded) fuels?
I assume the valves/valve seats in our post 1975 engines are made for unleaded.

 

[slabghost]

I use atf as cleaner AND stabilizer. Starts up just fine every year.

 

[Tom_Charlton]

A little research gave me this :
"Aviation gas is very similar to gasoline, albeit with a much higher octane (100) than gasoline sold for automobile use. Cars should run just fine on it, with one specific caveat: if the car has a catalytic converter, the lead that's in LL100 (the most commonly available aviation gasoline) will damage it. The lead may also damage the engine. If you can find lead-free avgas, then that should run your car just fine, but last I heard most of the avgas available at American airfields, at least, is LL100 and thus contains small amounts of lead.

Note that it's illegal, as a matter of tax law in the US, to operate a motor vehicle (other than a farm implement) on a public roadway with untaxed fuel. The use of leaded fuel (such as LL100) in a motor vehicle is also illegal in most states."

"AvGas is of interest to motoring enthusiasts because of its availability, octane rating and low price compared to commercial race fuels. AvGas might seem an obvious choice but closer study raises some doubt.

AvGas LL100 stands for "Low Lead 100 Octane". TEL (Tetra-ethyl-lead) is added to raise the octane. When used in a motor vehicle this fuel will leave a lot of lead deposits in the motor. 100LL has a high lead content (0.5 grams per liter), even higher than leaded race fuels. The deposits left when TEL(lead) is burned are corrosive and damaging to valves, valve guides, valve seats and cylinder heads. Lead deposits will also block oxygen(lambda) sensors and catalytic converters and foul spark plugs even after only a short use. Also, 100LL has a chemical package added to make it perform at high altitude, and that isn't the best thing for motor vehicle performance here on the ground.

"AvGas is blended for large-bore, long-stroke, low RPM engines which run at high altitude. While AvGas' higher octane is useful, smaller-bore, shorter-stroke, high RPM engines will perform better on racing fuel or high quality octane boosters. AvGas has lower volatility so when used in proportions higher than about 40%, part-throttle drivability and cold starts may be compromised. AvGas has a lower specific gravity so it will require a change in air-fuel ratio calibration for the engine to perform at its best. LL100 is blended with a high percentage of aromatics causing reduced throttle response which is not an issue with an aircraft engine but certainly an issue in a high-performance automotive engine. These high levels of aromatics will also damage rubber components in automotive fuel systems such as fuel lines, fuel pump seals and injector washers.

The sale and use of AvGas is heavily-regulated. Most aircraft fuel dealers refuse to put AvGas into anything other than an aircraft fuel tank. There is a legal grey area that has some vendors willing to dispense AvGas into "approved" containers if they believe the end use of that AvGas is fueling an aircraft engine. This loop-hole is how some may obtain AvGas for automotive use. Because AvGas has no taxes and duties on it, use on public roads is illegal and if found could result in your vehicle being impounded.

Doesn't sound like a very good idea. Darn!!

 

[joedrum]

well the gov makes gas that spoils and dont keep long ...for the plain and simple reason they want people dependent on them ...no hoarding fuel for self dependence ....it was always just completely stupid to food out of ones mouth and put it in gas ...all the reasons they said they were doing it for were just idiotic lies of justification.....when the most stupid have the power what dose one expect

atf is the best product to use in gas .....when you have carb motor ...

 

[Terry]

Thanks both of you for your replies and some education.
My father was a commercial pilot and I took basically forced instructional pilot training right up till the point of solo. I was just 16 and though my father badly wanted me to become a pilot, I rebeliously had no interest.
My point in saying this is: even though I was around planes and airports for much of my youth and young adulthood I know very little about aviation fuel.

 

[zman]

Corn Ethanol subsidies aren't written in stone but the lobby efforts have been successful in keeping them, if we get the right president they can go a long way in getting this stopped, Cruz I know want it stopped, probably other outsider candidates...more read on the situation.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic- ... -subsidies

 

[slabghost]

The biggest argument for ethanol has always been it's a "renewable" fuel. We were told in school way back when that the world would run out of oil by the year 2000. We now have more in reserve than ever before. It is my opinion it is a renewable resource also.

 

[Denver]

Not necessarily renewable, :nea: but buy the time it may really run low in over 100 years we should be able to advance to another way of fueling our needs. :headscratch: If not things could turn ugly real fast! :roll:

 

[joedrum]

fear!!!!!!! to eliminate freedom and common sense ...is why america is a do nothing country of fools for leaders on the take ......this is stupid its the same as the climate change ass holes in paris today ...people of the highest deceit and stupidity on earth to take decent life away from all but the wicked ....

funny how the people only get to vote for what three piece sack of crap on the take who screws everybody and instead of real issues like this ...it would loose to the tune of about 90% to 10% :smilie_happy:

 

[Denver]

The whole idea of burning your food supply, just because you grow more than THEY SAY we need, is one of the most SINFUL things we have done, with all the hungar & misery around. :shock: When one of the most useful plants on earth, is illegal. Cannabis grows in conditions too poor for much anything but weeds, which is what it is. :read: Biofuel, from biomass is an old subject, hemp was a necessary & much used plant for eons, for rope, sail's for wooden ships forever, & many other things, till nylon, & other OIL based fibers came along. :headscratch: The OIL in the seeds, can be used to cook, made into motor oil, gasoline, whatever you use crude for if my old reading was properly understood, & remembered by me.We all know of some of the other medical uses of the plant. But our leaders, & the press have told so many lies, for so long, that they are starting to get caught up,& don't know just what to do. :hihihi: So the biggest problem facing us is CLIMATE CHANGE???? :nea: ? Nazi's said tell a BIG A LIE, TELL IT OFTEN ENOUGH, & IT BECOMES THE TRUTH! Chose your enemies well, that's what you will become. :smilie_happy: Don't remember where i read that, :hi: Rant's over :fiddle: :salute:

 

[julimike54]

I've been using Startron to "stabilize fuel", seems to work fine, but cost is not as cheap as atf. Anybody tried atf stabilization for a year and then run the corn crap fuel?

I've been supporting American Motorcyclist Assoc. effort to reduce/eliminate ethanol, maybe more joining in will help.

My 2 cents worth

 

[dan filipi]

I've never used any stabilizer here in California, I guess there's no need if the gas is run through and not left to sit?
What happens to gas if let sit for a year without a stabilizer?
I do have old gas in a gas can that smells bad, it's several months old at least. Does it not burn?

 

[julimike54]

My experience, was unable to ride the wing for about a year, fuel (ha) absorbed water and turned into a mixture that ate the rubber in the carbs and gummed them up. Bike wouldn't run even after draining and flushing tank & carbs. When carbs rebuilt the rubber bits in contact with fuel were like a brick. Friend of mine had an old Vette he let sit for about 2 years, the fuel ate a hole in his tank, his investigation lead back to the fuel, he also had rubber parts that had turned brittle. This stuff is not my friend!

 

[slabghost]

It will burn but over time it leaves deposits and gells as it dries. Occasionally you should dump the gas can into your car so it mixes with fresh fuel and get's used.

 

[Tom_Charlton]

I read somewhere that the useful life of a gasoline-alcohol mix was 90 days. After that, the alcohol separates from the gasoline, draws moisture from the air in the tank and rust starts. The rubber components in older vehicles were not manufactured to withstand the deleterious effects of alcohol, so older bikes and cars suffer the most damage from alcohol exposure.

We're lucky to have a station here that sells alcohol-free unleaded gas, so that's what I put in the cycles, 78 El Camino, lawnmower, weed eater, leaf blower, etc., especially when lay-up time gets close. I add Stabil to the tanks, remove the batteries and hunker down until spring. It's worked so far.

Come on, Spring!!

 

[Terry]

PurpleGL1200I » 42 minutes ago[/url]":2gg0z2n9]
I read somewhere that the useful life of a gasoline-alcohol mix was 90 days. After that, the alcohol separates from the gasoline, draws moisture from the air in the tank and rust starts. The rubber components in older vehicles were not manufactured to withstand the deleterious effects of alcohol, so older bikes and cars suffer the most damage from alcohol exposure.

We're lucky to have a station here that sells alcohol-free unleaded gas, so that's what I put in the cycles, 78 El Camino, lawnmower, weed eater, leaf blower, etc., especially when lay-up time gets close. I add Stabil to th
e tanks, remove the batteries and hunker down until spring. It's worked so far.

Come on, Spring!!

What I have done forever on everything except autos and bikes is fire them up and run them until they run out of gas and die.Then I spray some lube down in thru the sparkplug hole and call it done. This technique has always worked well on outboards, yard equipment, or anything else used seasonally but put away thru fall and winter.

 

[jpwinger]

Right now I'm working on my 80 1100 stored since last June atf and marine stabil in the tank. Ran the carbs dry (hard on battery's and starters if you don't refill carbs) . It started good but I can tell it doesn't run as well as when I put it up. Just seems btu's are just not there sort of ruff running sort of. I like marine stabil over the standard stabil it seems to help keep the carbs clean. But I can tell there is still a lost in the gas even with the additives from last June to now. It starts without a choke and runs ok but still not just right. I'll know more when I get the brake work done I'm doing to it new pad's and a little work on the rear master cylinder ( I hate brake work). Gona ride the old gas out first then I should know if it's the gas. Jerry

 

[oldhondajamie]

I worked as a lawn and garden mechanic for many years, the old rule of running your carbs dry worked well with the old non ethanol fuel. When they started using ethanol we always recommended you fill your tank put in a good stabilizer of your choosing and run the engine for 10 minutes or so to be sure the treated fuel was in your carbs. always worked for those who did it. Every spring we had to clean or replace carbs for those who still ran their equipment dry, same thing when the first snows would fly a rush of snow blowers with carb issues. I've personally have used ATF and Stabil with good results in the bikes and the small engine equipment. Most good 2 stroke oils come with stabil or another additive already in them. I put a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel of all my 4 stroke lawn equipment just to keep the valves and top end lubricated. 1 oz per 2 gallon gas. My push mower is 25 years old and starts on the first pull every time. First time in the spring prime it 5 times pull 3 times and it runs on last years fuel. Never rebuilt the carb, and cant remember last time I changed the plug.