Nitrogen and regular air mix in tires?

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dan filipi

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My son's new Cherokee came with Nitrogen in the tires. Pressure is low. Can regular and Nitrogen be mixed?

Seems like a really stupid question...I think Nitrogen is a gimmick but mixing I thought could cause something unwanted? I have no idea.
 
Nitrogen is a lighter gas, and cleaner than regular "air". It also reacts to the rubber compounds less than "air", and is more stable. ANY compressed air you use from just about anywhere has oils and other contaminates in it. Nitrogen doesn't.
That being said, unless you completely vacuum/evacuate all of the air out of a tire, it will ALWAYS have a mixture of air and nitrogen....
You can use regular air in it with no problems at all. Nitrogen use in tires isn't a "gimmick" at all...it does have some advantages, but more in racing applications than on daily drivers. :yes:
 
i got a friend that uses Nitrogen in his tires and totally believes in it, and he told me he has had the same set of tires on his truck for the last 6 years and they still look new, and it was a daily driver. We all know there will some wearing on tire tread, but i did know the truck and the dang tires really always looked new year after year...i don't know much about using Nitrogen either, but i have seen some results first hand.
 
Better check to make sure it doesn't damage the pressure sensors on the newer vehicles by adding air to the tires before doing so. Personally, I'm just an old hot air guy. :read: :mrgreen: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy:
 
I once looked for shops who have nitrogen but couldn't find any nearby. (There was one guy who comes to your house by appointment but sounded costly.)

I only wanted to fill up my rebuilt vintage FoxShox gas shocks.

So the Jeep dealers have it?
 
As Joe stated 'air' is 78% N, it's the other stuff that isn't so good (not gases) but as Aapple stated the contaminants. One large one for aluminium wheels is the moisture in the air, I noticed the oxidation inside the wings wheel after 30 yrs. As Backlander pointed out the PSI sensors probably won't like it either. Around here almost every tire shop and dealer it seems like carry it. I like the idea of it because the gas isn't affected as much by the heat generated in the tires, hence more stable PSI.

You can mix the two and not 'mess' anything up, just take it to a place afterward & they evacuate the tire & refill.
 
:roll: Gimmick.

I wholly realize I'm necroposting here... but...

The sensors are piezoelectric surface pressure transducers embedded inside a housing that has to tolerate a whole lot more aggressive chemistry than any difference an additional 10% of nitrogen content would affect. Same goes for the tires and the rims, and the valve stem... and if you TRIED to evacuate and fill completely with nitrogen, you'd never get to it anyway... From 78, you might make 85%...

The lubricant/sealing compound used for mounting the tires, road salt finding it's way between the rim and the bead... sunlight on the outside, oil and objects from the road... all present hundreds of orders of magnitude more impact on the tires than the gas inside.

Thermal expansion of nitrogen, vs garden-mix that results in atmospheric air is mathematically insignificant.

Yeah, they charge shocks with nitrogen. Why? Because there's OIL in them, and when you aereate oil with oxygen, and put it under rapid pressure, you have a Diesel Engine. This is why a hydraulic accumulator is charged with non-flammable gases... and don't think for a moment that Nitrogen is non-reactive... if it weren't, we wouldn't have nitric acid to pickle steels. For charging, Nitrogen is chosen over an inert... say... Argon, Helium, Neon Krypton, Xenon and Radon... because it's cheap and easy- take a deep breath, if you're below 36000ft, you're already at 78%. Eliminate the oxygen by spraying some alcohol in there and sponsor a fire to exchange the remaining 20% for carbon dioxide and water... one of which will settle out, the other will constitute an insignificant trace.

There's really only one significant advantage to charging a tire with Nitrogen... fire suppression. If a wheel and tire assembly becomes subject to a fire, the air pressure inside the tire won't significantly impact something burning, which doesn't mean much to an average road automobile, but if you have 'true' magnesium wheels and red-hot brakes on your Formula One racecar, it CAN give you a few more seconds to escape before the fire gets really, really hot... because nothing accellerates a burning tire, like a nice breeze.

Whatever you do, just don't mount a tire by spraying something flammable into the tire, then throwing a match in it. People who do that, don't understand basic chemistry... the resulting fire may burn enough to whoof and seat the tire bead, it will stop burning once one of two things happen: First, the fire runs out of fuel, or second, the fire runs out of oxygen. Basically all the time, the latter is the case, which means the tire is still charged with fuel, but there's no oxygen present to permit further combustion... but the very next thing one does, is put an air hose to it, which makes that fuel viable (and usually corrosive) again.

If you're considering Nitrogen to make your tires last longer, you're not riding enough. Get out there and rotate the tires the old fashioned way: Click to the next gear, let the clutch out, and twist your wrist. Don't forget to use the brakes every once'n a while.
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212230#p212230:2o7016e3 said:
dan filipi » 54 minutes ago[/url]":2o7016e3]
Are you bored, Dave?

:fishin:

Some days I wonder where all the great-new-ideas come from... and where all the foundations of physical science have gone away to... :headscratch:

BTW... Good Morning, Dan! It's a great day to ride an OldWing to work, but... I had to drive my company truck. :roll:
 
Isn't it amazing how well air (80/20 mix) has worked for 100 years? Nitrofil in the automobile service market is a scam. I have been servicing cars, trucks and bikes for 40+ years, and my own auto service shop for 21 years. Nitrofil does NOT slow or prevent dry-rot, it does NOT leak out any faster or slower than air, it does NOT reduce tire temperature to any measurable degree, it does NOT extend tire mileage. This goes for cars AND motorcycles. BMW dealers started this BS in the MC industry because their customers are usually wealthy and gullible, and education level seems to have no cure for the sickness of bragging rights.

The auto service industry picked up on it 10 years later, preaching the same BS and more. I have possibly changed several thousand tires, and none have dry-rotted from the inside, EVER. The #1 cause of tubeless alloy rim-bead corrosion is the use of diluted rim-bead lube applied when the tire is mounted new, #2 is alloy clip-on wheel weights. I repair this problem all the time and Nitrofil has NO effect regarding either issue as well.

Tire and Lube service stations, and about 70% of garages leave car and bike tires underinflated, primarily for ride-comfort effect, but also by following tire PSI labels that still bear inflation PSI that is 40 years out of date.

Solutions are to watch tire wear and know what it is telling you about inflation being low or high, and proper frequent tire rotation and balancing.

To Hell with TPMS, which is a lazy answer to a simple maintenance matter. Most systems are inaccurate by as much as 5 PSI even brand new. Do you wait until the oil pressure light stays lit to change your oil? The TPMS is worse due to gross inaccuracy and frequent damage and failure, which tends to make most people passive about it after spending a fortune to make the light go out. It is ignored as often as it is panicked about.

When service and maintenance were regular events in the life of a car or motorcycle, these tire issues were less prevalent, although not entirely absent due to poor service. Techno-gimmicks do not change physics nor the necessity for regular service and repair.
The only substitute for regular service is the disposal of your vehicle, which is becoming the norm rather than the exception nowadays. End of rant.
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=178261#p178261:3bqxvn6f said:
backyardtrouble » 04 Aug 2016, 13:20[/url]":3bqxvn6f]
i got a friend that uses Nitrogen in his tires and totally believes in it, and he told me he has had the same set of tires on his truck for the last 6 years and they still look new, and it was a daily driver. We all know there will some wearing on tire tread, but i did know the truck and the dang tires really always looked new year after year...i don't know much about using Nitrogen either, but i have seen some results first hand.

I have had the same set of tires on my 74 K-10 pickup for 20 years now, with no dry rot. The stems have ratted out 3 times since I installed the tires.
It sits and sits and gets anywhere from 10-200 miles on it each year. There are times when you can get exceptionally good rubber, by chance, and Michelin's will dry rot in 3 years no matter what you do or spend. They are also the only tire specified by name in VA State Law that have a stated allowable tire-crack size, which is about twice what is allowable for any other non-specified brand, so that should tell you something. Rubber composition and construction quality is a crap-shoot, and the price tag of the tire is not always congruent with either.

I never use Nitrofil; it is a modern Techno-Con used to play on emotions to elicit more revenue. If it makes you "feel" better, buy it. The tires, wheels, and fuel you burn do not know or care one way or the other, so long as you maintain proper pressure, alignment and balance.
 
When I was rebuidling vintage FoxShocks, I wanted fill it with nitrogen (because the manual said so.)
I looked around shops who do that but couldn't find any nearby (SoCal.)
So I guess it's not that popular around here.

TPMS helped me once. My E150 van had a nail in the tread and slow leak. It detected it in time.
And yes I became lazy and don't check time pressure regularly any more. LOL
 
You will always have some oxygen in your tires unless they were mounted in a vacuum chamber and inflated with 100% nitrogen. Your tire may be flat and show no pressure, but it still has a mixture of 78% nitrogen, 21 % oxygen and 1% other gases in the tire.

Throwing out some numbers to put things in proportion: Volume of a hypothetical tire is 50cf; nitrogen fills 39cf, and oxygen (+ argon, carbon dioxide, water vapor, etc.) fills 11cf.

Inflate the tire to 35 psi by adding 119cf of 100% nitrogen. Nitrogen is now 158cf and oxygen is still 11cf. You have gone from 78% nitrogen to 93.5% nitrogen, but the oxygen and other gases are still present.

Will the higher percentage of nitrogen make a difference to normal riders? Not to me, so I will continue to use air in my tires.

Time for someone else to natter.
 
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