Still having trouble with #1 plug fouling

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kirkwilson

kirkwilson

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#2,3,4 plugs run clean. #1 fouls black within 25 miles. I adjusted the pilot screw all the way in, then back out 1 1/4 turns. It just seems to be running much richer than the other cylinders. The bike runs great when I put a new plug in #1, but fouls the plug real quick. I took the plug wires and caps off and switched them side-to-side and #1 was still my problem. Is there any way to adjust the mixture without pulling off all the carbs and adjusting the float? Still been doing the Seafoam thing.
Another thing, my muffler on the right side is turning color like a rainbow which I take as a sign that it's running hot. Normally that would mean 'lean', right? But my #3 plug looks fine so I'm thinking #1 is dumping so much unburned fuel into the exhaust that it's burning in the muffler.

Help!!!!!
 
Well what you could do is stick Irridium plugs in, #1 anyhow. They are much harder to foul but I think your ultimately going to be pulling the carbs to adjust the floats at a minimum because it sounds to me like you've got a lean condition on 1 or 3 maybe both causing the pipes to overheat.
The carb slides could also be hanging up or other grunge causing a lean condition.

A simpler first approach may be to change the fuel filter and check fuel flow from the pump. If it's starving that could cause the overheating.
 
Thanks, Dan-
One of the first things I did was replace the fuel filter and It's a low pressure carb type not for injectors- no, it's not a Honda part but it should still work. I guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and pull the carbs. The plugs for #2,3, and 4 look fine and none have fouled yet- just #1. And they don't look like they're too lean either- they all look pretty good. Whatever happened to the old-fashioned low-speed and high-speed jet screw adjusters???? Sure would beat pulling all the carbs off to bend a little piece of metal to get a float height right.................. I'll post some plug pictures- please take a look and try and help a newbie out.... Meanwhile I'll try the iridium plug in #1- just kind of sounds cool- 'iridium'...
 
im sure its the carb or igniton spark very weak on that wire....the mixture screw is very slow acting change on these wing motors esoecialy when the idle curcuts are cloged or somethinelse is sticking ....ithink its time to say the seafome is not going to clean that carb any better .....you could switch to adding ATF and try a couple of tanks of that it cleans in a different way and might do some good ....screw that idle scew in and out a few times while its running and then just scew it in all the way and go for a ride if its running rich this certainly wont hurt it then back out to 1-1/2

good luck but its getting down to that carb is not going to come clean......
 
Thanks, guys. Pistol Pete thinks that carb is flooding so I guess off they come to check it out. Hey- Life's a state of mind- I'm off next week- it's real hot outside- my garage stays pretty cool- so hopefully I'll learn something about Goldwing carbs (and fix something). Thanks again.
 
Carbs are off. Found some things that didn't make me happy. Found some things that did.

I'm generally a positive person (no comments here from my ex- please) so here's the good-

Gaskets and o-rings look new so on a 30-yr old bike I do think the carbs were rebuilt recently.
Didn't find any major missing parts ( couple of washers ).
Everything's clean- no crud- carbs look pretty much new inside- ( My problem is that #1 runs real rich 2,3,4 run great) so I left the carbs together and took the float bowls off #1 (problem- fouls plugs) and #2 (no problem-plugs clean). Pretty much looked the same.

Here's the bad-

O-ring on #4 intake runner to head was half gone- not there - so I know that #4 has been running lean since the carbs were rebuilt ( or at least since the o-ring got eaten by the cylinder).
LOT'S of crud on the back of the intake valves. Black, nasty crud. This engine was supposed to have 7660 original miles and I just can't see all that crud in 7660 miles so I'm thinking that instead of the low-mileage bike I thought I was buying I got a bike with WHO KNOWS how many miles. And a replaced speedometer.

Can I pull the plugs, put some scotchbrite and solvent down the the intake ports, swish it around, turn the engine over several times by hand with lube,etc.. to clean up the valves?

Still love the bike- Just wish I was riding instead of wrenching-
 
Since someone HAS been in the carbs makes it all the more reason to go over them carefully, especially the float levels and make sure the jets and passages are clear.

I would run Seafoam in the tank to try cleaning the carbon off the valves.
 
on the valve you might turn the motor enough to where that valve is closed and put some seafoam in it to see if it holds it and dose not leak down ....and alittle cleanig till the carbs are done....just get the crud out .....kind of a por mans valve check and scrub .....might want to do this all around .....carbs like dan said get them clean and floats sould be done lower than normal if you use the side stand alot definutly not higher.....others might disagree on this but get them clean
 
joedrum":2kro02y7 said:
on the valve you might turn the motor enough to where that valve is closed and put some seafoam in it to see if it holds it and dose not leak down ....and alittle cleanig till the carbs are done....just get the crud out .....kind of a por mans valve check and scrub .....might want to do this all around .....carbs like dan said get them clean and floats sould be done lower than normal if you use the side stand alot definutly not higher.....others might disagree on this but get them clean
Click to expand...
Joe, floats lower than normal prevent the startup puff of unburnt gas maybe? How will lowering the floats effect performance otherwise? (I am really not a carb guy!)

I still want to try an old Suburu 1.8 liter throttle body FI on one of these engines, maybe on my '81 diesel! :builder:
 
I really wouldn’t mess with lowering the float level, it could definitely effect the fuel/air ratio in that cylinder. As long as the floats are adjusted properly and the jets are clean then you shouldn’t have any problem with that carb

The fact that you have a lot of carbon build up on the valves tells me you have a lot more than 7k miles on that engine. Look at the intake valve on #1, is there more carbon on that valve than the others?

Does the bike use any oil, or smoke when you start it? I’m wondering if you may have a valve stem seal leaking or worse yet oil leaking past the rings. Have you ran a compression test on the engine? Also do you know how to test a cylinder for leakage?

I have a little trick for carbon in engines. It is called water. I’ll fill a spray bottle with water and remove the air cleaner, run the engine at least 1500 rpm and spray a mist of water into the air intake. Now you don’t want a lot of water just a fine spray. Many times that will really clean the carbon out of an engine.
 
OldWrench":3mph2e0l said:
I have a little trick for carbon in engines. It is called water. I’ll fill a spray bottle with water and remove the air cleaner, run the engine at least 1500 rpm and spray a mist of water into the air intake. Now you don’t want a lot of water just a fine spray. Many times that will really clean the carbon out of an engine.
Click to expand...

Man, I forgot about that trick! We used to do that to our cars in the '70s before selling them to get them cleaned up! :smilie_happy:
 
i realy dont mean lowering the float level much just to emphasize that it sould be leaning that way and not the other way .....so im not talking a lot and it did cure my problem on my carbs ....but so did the cleaning and everything i did at the same time ....

im realy a fan of the stock carbs and useing atf ....but that sounds interesting gerry except for the cost lots of mod work....but im also a fan of single carb and i dont think anybody got the intake shaped right .....ive got an ideal that i might do with some pvc to try it out....but ive got to many things going on right now...but i would like my touring bike set up this way for simpiscity if icould make it work right not much mod work to this setup and not much to go wrong...
 
Man, I forgot about that trick! We used to do that to our cars in the '70s before selling them to get them cleaned up!
Click to expand...

I forgot something, you don't want to do that on the new engines. Reason being you can really screw up the MAP sensor by doing so. I have not damaged one by using water because one of the classes I went to many years ago we were told that water will damage or could damage the MAP sensor.
 
If the floats are set too low it will run lean, too high it will run rich.
I've tried it because I later found out my #2 carbs has a flakey non Honda float needle.
At the time I didn't want to find a Honda needle and seat so I "tweaked" that float a mm or so lower. I'm paying the price now for not doing it right then because now that same seat is giving me problems.
Chalk it up to a PO trying to save money and myself cheapin out.
 
WOW....So much to learn....So few brain cells left...

Yeah- there is A LOT of crud on the back of the intake valves so there goes the 7700 original miles.

I opened up the #1 and #2 float bowls. There is a definate different place in the travel of the float where little valve (sorry about this- I promise I will learn the real names of these things)- starts to open. My problem is that my old eyes are having a hard time putting some kind of measurement on it-

Is there any way to put some kind of liquid in the fuel lines, under normal operating pressure, then move the floats and measure where they actually open? If the liquid was under pressure you could tell exactly when the valve opened (with a pressure gauge) because there will be a pressure drop. You could measure the float at that point and know if it is at the 15.5 mm specified in the Honda manual. Or, you could clamp the float at the correct 15.5 mm, then bend the (whatever it is that you're supposed to bend- you've got to be kidding me- this is how you adjust carbs???????) until the valve opens and you see the pressure drop-

Or do I have it all wrong? If you put a liquid under normal operating pressure into the carb fuel inlet are there other places the pressure can leak out other than rhe float valves? And if so, could they be temporarily blocked off just to set the floats?

I bow down to all who have been here before - ..................
 
To old wrench-

No all the intake valves have about the same black crud so I think it was there before the carb rebuild. I like joedrum's idea of turning the engine over by hand until the intake is closed then putting the Seafoam down to see if it leaks off- Thanks, Joe!
 
Well, I spent the day going over the carbs. I didn't separate the carbs or take off the linkage since 3 of them were running good. These carbs were definately recently rebuilt- They are spotless inside. The rubber looks new except the vacuum chamber sealing rings. The floats heights were all set exactly right. I pulled the float and float valve/spring off #1 and #2 to compare them- spring tension was at least as good on #1. I weighed the floats to see if #1 was heavy and it was exactly the same weight as #2. Do I need to replace the sealing rings?

I don't know about some of the other stuff, though. All of the vacuum piston needles had various marks and scuffs- #1 and #3 were about 1/2 mm longer than the other side. #1 was the only one that had a sharp point- the others are kind of rounded off. Also, with the vacuum pistons out, looking down into the venturis (venturi's venturii- does anybody know the plural of 'venturi'?), the needle jet on #1 looked dull and/or dirty. The others were shiny. Anyway, all 4 piston needles had a lot of marks. Does this mean I need to replace them? And if I replace them, do I need the jets replaced too?

Any other ideas why this one cylinder is fouling plugs are very welcome- Thanks!
 
All I can think of right now is to recheck that float level very carefully with the carbs standing up then put them all back together and set up a bench test to fill the bowls with gas and compare the actual level in the bowls.
When I had trouble with my #2 carb gas would spill out the bowl as soon as I broke the screws loose, the others were just below the top.

While carbs are off it's a good time to check compression, at least this gives us an idea of cylinder and valve conditions.

I don't think the slight scuffing on the needles is anything to worry about, all of mine have a point but I don't think that they have to have a point because that part of the needle is up when accelerating hard.

Compare all the slide spring lengths.

Stand the slide chambers upside down, put the spring and slide in. The spring should hold the slide bottom up about flush with the chamber and the slides should go in and out of the chamber and bounce with no restriction.
There should be no scuffing in the slide chamber.

I'll pick my brain more and post.
 
one cylinder running hotter than the next might indicate the linkages may need to be balanced.
seems like I read that at some site.
anyway, when you get these together,before you re-install you should run over them with the "bench sync" method to see if #1 is out ...
if you havent read how to do this, use a small drill bit(shank) to prop open the butterfly on one carb.. and adjust the idle screw in till the butterfly just touches. then check the other carbs for the same clearance.
this worked great with my carbs... they fired right up and run very close when checked with the vacume gauges.
also kirk if you need to borrow a set of gauges let me know, maybe I can send them along with the wires :D
hang in there bro, its worth it in the end!
 

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