Stopping the startup smoke

[Arnold]

My 1981 GL1100I doesn't smoke when I'm riding down the highway; but each morning it creates a cloud of smoke. I bought eight valve guide seals from Saber Cycle to fix the problem. At $4 each, plus shipping it came to $39.81. Then I started taking stuff apart, following a Clymer manual. The toughest part was getting the radiator loose so as to access the bolts holding the timing belt cover on. Five hours later, I was down to the nitty gritty.
I bought a Central Forge valve spring compressor from Harbor Freight for about $16.00. It was frustrating to use at first because the hooked arms kept slipping off the springs. I finally found a solution using a spring clamp to hold the sides together. Then I had more success.
In these photos you can see the three-foot yellow rope I stuffed into the spark plug hole to keep the valves in place while the spring was off.

The trickiest part was not losing the little collets; I developed considerable manual dexterity this week.

At last, after about ten hours, all eight valve guide seals were in place. I felt like repeating the old verse, "That which we persist in doing becomes easier, not because the nature of the task has changed, but our capacity to do has increased." Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Now I need a little advice on how to get those dang timing belts back on.

 

[theoj]

Nice workshop.
Stopped the smoking after starting up?
Theoj

 

[dan filipi]

Great, lets hope that stops the startup smoke.

Do you need help putting the belts on?

 

[Arnold]

I got some advice on how to reinstall the belts from a referenced site dedicated to naked goldwings. I should have some time this weekend to put it back together. Then I will know whether the valve stem seals have stopped the smoke.

 

[joedrum]

arnold the belts can be a handful and some of th info outhere is kinda tuff to do as discribed ......please if be careful its so easy to to bend a valve even when turning things by hand....theres a good belt changing post by me bu no pics and im not sure where is at but i will try and find it ....somehere know about it and might find it first im not good in the memory department ...i will try to get this for you its a preetty failsafe how to on timing belt change ...this is the most dangerest job on the wing :mrgreen: :ahem: :mrgreen:

 

[89-300ce]

Out of intrest, what is the mileage on the bike?

Jorg

 

[Arnold]

My 1981 Goldwing Interstate has about 45,000 miles on it. As I was disassembing the rocker arm assembly, I was amazed that there was no evidence of any kind of wear. All the cams were polished smooth as well as the followers. The oil seemed kind of sticky to me as if the former owner had added STP oil treatment to try to stop the startup smoke.

 

[dan filipi]

I think this is the belt change/install Joe was talking about.
viewtopic.php?p=20158#p20158
The entire thread has some good reading as well.


(I've copied Joe's post and corrected typos below)

Im going to assume that were taking the radiator loose, grill remove and hoses still attached so it can come forward some to get at timing belt cover bolts .....i dont have to on my bikes cause i dont use the inner bolts on the covers .......

either blow the motor off with air if you have it and brush it off the best you can everywhere you can get at ...around the heads ...timing belt covers ...by the timing mark cap and so on .....

Then pull the plug wires off and clean more ....and blow out the plug holes with air from mechanical or human means...

Take the plugs out and put plug wires back in place like caps ....

Take the timing covers off.

Now take the valve covers off....and timing mark cover off the top of the mortor in the back ...

Now useing the crank bolt nut in front of the motor turn it clockwise to T1 position and then turn the crank bolt 90 degees more to sink the pistons halfway back down all around ....you can actualy check this by sticking something in the plug hole to see if the pistons are equal if one side is down the other side is too.

Now loosen the valves by undoing the lock nut and turning the adjusters all the way back inside the rocker and then snug the lock nut down so they dont vibrate loose and come out ....do all the valves this way.

Now loosen timing belt tensioner and take belts off....making sure that the crank is still in the sunk down position with the pistons .....

Now turn the timing belt pulleys to as close to the timing mark on the pulleys as you can with the up mark on the pully up on both sides ....again while the crank is still in the piston sunk position.

Now turn the crank to the T1 position and put the belt on while holding the pulley in position on the mark by hand is what i do .....its not all that hard with all the valves loose....when you think you have it check the timing mark and crank are still right ...it might be off, if it is line it back up on the mark and then check the cam pully for being right, it might be off ....just keep redoing the belt till you get it ...it seems it takes me two or three times to get sometimes ....once you get it let the adjuster snug in the belt without pushing hard just snug in and tighten some both bolts ......then go to the other side (the other belt) and put it on and keep at it till it right and tighten it ......

While putting the belts on you dont want to move the crank except back and forth right at the mark never go around at all.....

Now that the belts are on ....and everything looks good ....turn the motor over slowly with the crank bolt and feel for resistance, go slow .....when you think it's fine and nothing hitting do it again.....

Now that your confident everything is good it's time to adjust the valves ....this is where my mind is letting me down some anyway ...turn the crank to T1 again and check what cylinder has both valves loose and the exhaust valve loose too on the back piston on that side ....this is the valve that's ready for valve adjustment .....do it ...to .004 thousants feeler guage....then move to T2 and find which back cylinder has both valves loose and the intake on the front cylinder loose also and adjust that back cylinder....then to T1 and do the other front cylinder and then to T2 and do the other back cylinder .....

After this is done then turn the crank slowly with the crank bolt and check for resistance or hitting of the valves ....it will be a tad harder with the spring pressure now ....if it looks like things are good do it again and again ...

Put the timing mark and valve covers on ....plugs in ....wires back on ...things cleaned up and out of the way ....and start it .....things will be fine .

I may have the pattern messed up on exhaust and intake valve on and sequence with front and back cylinder its seems i teach myself everytime i do it ....

(I prefer to use the stator nut to turn the engine over since it's easier then to see the "T-1" mark come around into the timing window at the rear of the carbs, your choice)

 

[Arnold]

It smoked on startup this afternoon, before I took it for a 30-mile ride. But, I expected that, because it's the first time since I took it apart and installed the seals. The test will be tomorrow morning when I fire it up to ride to work. I'll let you know.
Goldwings are easy to work on. It is satisfying to follow the instructions in the manuals and have everything come out right. Very user-friendly.

 

[AApple]

Goldwings are easy to work on. ... Very user-friendly.

:shock: Did you really mean to say that out loud??

:smilie_happy: :mrgreen: :smilie_happy:



I bet the smoking will stop completely, or be very limited/light for a few miles, until the seals get a set on them. A few hot/cold soaks should do it. If it doesn't stop completely after a few days, you may have guides that are just too worn for the seals to work properly.
Congrats on the job well done, and Good Luck! :good:

 

[Arnold]

I started it up at 6:40am this morning. The temperature was 28 degrees, so there was a lot of steam coming from the pipes. Unlike smoke, the steam dissipated cleanly. Definitely not as much smoke hanging around in a stinking cloud. My hands were hurting from the cold when I got to work 20 minutes later. The price we pay for bragging rights.
Every mechanical repair I have undertaken has come out successfully on this old wing. That's why I concluded Goldwings were "easy" to work on.

 

[dan filipi]

I agree they ARE pretty easy to work on, much like an old car only smaller parts.

 

[Winger 82]

Heck that's the way I can tell when it's time for an oil change, plus it keeps the skeeters away when I'm getting ready to go to work in the late evening :hihihi: :hihihi: :hihihi:

 

[king1]

What has been explained or told to me is this...... No matter if valve guides are replaced.. It's still going to smoke on a cold start up.. Much debate has been spent on this smoking issue.. But a solution has yet to be found.. I resolve my own thoughts about this smoking as just the nature of the goldwing. A very common issue..

 

[dan filipi]

The common startup smoke when on the sidestand isn't caused by the valve seals, it's the nature of the flat 4 design. Honda even admits this is the problem in the design in the book "Goldwing the first 20 years".

When on the sidestand the oil runs over into the cylinder at bottom of the left pistons.
If the oil seeps past the rings you will have smoke until that oil burns off.

About the only solution I've found is to run the oil level below 1/2 in the site glass.

 

[AApple]

The only time mine has ever smoked on start-up was when I had the ATF in the fuel. Other than that, it has never smoked at all. Then again, I never leave it on the sidestand... k:

 

[zcarron]

I find if you will sit on the bike about 2 min. holding it upright after you turn it off then put it on the side stand you will have very little smoke on start up. :mrgreen: