Dyno tests on GL1200 with SCC?

[joedrum]

well yes dan your right but credit to me is not the issue ....you know me well ....this really is a ? of acceptance of the mod potential...but the flat out non acceptance of the 1200 hooched out mods is not really a SCC thing ...personally i was going to use early oldwing carbs....the project wasnt accepted then.... but here at classic it was ok..... i got all kinds of discounts from other forums.....i address my post basically yesterday strait to eric...as he has the mod himself....he and i though we seem to babble back and forth we both hung in there and have bikes that are on the road....i was curious yesterday when i seen the thread if there actually was more bikes like ours....im not sure b girl is even on the road ....eric has tried hard to get stock carbs to work on this 1200 mod we have built ..his is not quite the same as hooch is but basically is ....i had to dump the stock carb set up as it just would not work and went single carb....and said why i had too ....the vacuum is so different that the motor would suck the bowls empty...that was met with total discount ....eric stuck with stock carbs and eventually found out he had to plug vac holes to carbs to work ...im not going to speak for eric ...to me this hooch out motor really brought into play the realities of the stock carbs set up big time ...this was met with total discounts again ....im not all that good on computers ..its a good thing im not in charge to fix...mod ..or tell anyone how to use them...it possible i really just couldnt find the dam thread again ..im not ashamed of my lack of skills on computers....

truth on this mod is ...i am very capable here in this arena ,,,,many know it ...and it is not right that things ive done get discounted by people who dont have a clue and have never gone there...so that is an issue ...because i truely do want to spread what i have done to others freely.....i can honestly say to all this is a great mod ...it is basically a low dollar stock parts mixing that can done ..a lot of wingers like me cant spend huge dollars to make more power....and it would be nice if others would quit discounting a great way to upgrade a oldwing....it is not good for the oldwing community at all ....the hooch bike has many mods done to it beyond its motor ...it has 1200 final drive and swingarm installed ..so its not faster than a 84 standard cause its lower geared....as is stated all the time as a discount reason its faster and the mod is actually not more powerful....simply not true in hooches case.....i have ran 1200 standards two times around hooch ...there was one at my house that i fixed up for V when hooch first got put together ....and i compared them both myself then ...my buddy brian came to see me on his 1200 standard just a few months ago ..its a nice bike ..it went 8000mile trip to get here to fla ..we rode them around he has opinion too and is currently doing a project bike that might end up like hooch ...im sure it not cause he saw no difference in the two bikes....they are geared the same...and i can tell you his 1200 standard ran well and was top notch bike .....im not a glory seeking forum poster as some are ...just trying to put my work forward to all .... :thanks:

 

[Fstsix]

Well, before Hooch needs to go on a Dyno, The real test should be to see if any Stock 1200 can come close to the factory reported 94 hp ? gonna be a lot of disappointing numbers , may see 65-75 Rwh, My Dyno run shown here was with a Sniffer , and the Dyno really helped with the Video also, Both pulls power was lost at around 7000 rpm, If ya listen closely you can hear a Loud Squeak ! Blower belt was loose !! costing me HP ! Also look at the AFR when throttle was opened ,, Fuel Ratio went extremely Lean ! , So After Changing to a Gates Blue Racing Belt "Thanks Randaak" for the advise on SOHC board , And Reaming my Main Jet past anything made by Sudco. And Enlarging the Needle Jet, Already have a # 95 Needle "Largest made" I have found the Flat spot FIX !! YES!! Great tool for tuning, Now my Barnett Racing Clutch and spring will not hold in 5th With Nitrous Hit ..Always something when HP is Doubled :swoon:

 

[dan filipi]

Fstsix » 27 minutes ago[/url]":1st1u2eb]
Well, before Hooch needs to go on a Dyno, The real test should be to see if any Stock 1200 can come close to the factory reported 94 hp ? gonna be a lot of disappointing numbers , may see 65-75 Rwh, My Dyno run shown here was with a Sniffer , and the Dyno really helped with the Video also, Both pulls power was lost at around 7000 rpm, If ya listen closely you can hear a Loud Squeak ! Blower belt was loose !! costing me HP ! Also look at the AFR when throttle was opened ,, Fuel Ratio went extremely Lean ! , So After Changing to a Gates Blue Racing Belt "Thanks Randaak" for the advise on SOHC board , And Reaming my Main Jet past anything made by Sudco. And Enlarging the Needle Jet, Already have a # 95 Needle "Largest made" I have found the Flat spot FIX !! YES!! Great tool for tuning, Now my Barnett Racing Clutch and spring will not hold in 5th With Nitrous Hit ..Always something when HP is Doubled :swoon:

Good point.
Seems to me a dyno run would be a waste of money except to check emissions, that is until someone dyno's a stock 1200 but even at that there would be variables between the 2.
I'd rather see a few good old fashioned street races.

 

[Tom_Charlton]

Maybe some 1/4 mile passes at a local drag way? 1st with an 84 standard (no extra weight of bags, fairing, etc). Then with successively modified machines to see where the sweet spot is?

 

[dan filipi]

What gear is used to dyno, 4th being 1 to 1?

 

[Randakk]

dan filipi » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:07 am[/url]":1xx9yp0w]
What gear is used to dyno, 4th being 1 to 1?

Generally accepted practice on bikes with "overdrive" transmission it to use the gear closest to 1:1. In this case - 4th gear,

 

[joedrum]

theres a drag strip close to me ...my only concern there is ...is me ...not sure im good enough to do such a thing ...hooch is fast and im the weakest link in the set up ... :smilie_happy:

a vid of me wiping out is somewhat in my mind :shock:

 

[dan filipi]

Randakk » 6 minutes ago[/url]":256g9gwf]

dan filipi » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:07 am[/url]":256g9gwf]
What gear is used to dyno, 4th being 1 to 1?

Generally accepted practice on bikes with "overdrive" transmission it to use the gear closest to 1:1. In this case - 4th gear,

So if Honda pulled their numbers off the crank, a rear wheel dyno won't mean anything comparatively speaking.
Sorry, I'm slow sometimes but I'm starting to see more and more a dyno of just one bike wouldn't tell us much.

 

[Terry]

dan filipi » 29 minutes ago[/url]":vauqjx9u]
What gear is used to dyno, 4th being 1 to 1?

Every time I have seen one, they ran it up thru the gears until they were in top gear and nailed it.
I "assume" this slows acceleration enough to minimize over revving past redline.

 

[Fstsix]

2 pulls , First was 4th gear and 2nd was 5th, 143.2 round off 144hp, Rwhp..My friend has a Harley shop and is shown on my bike doing the pulls, He had my bike in 5th gear and brought it down to 15 mph and around 1000 rpm and hammered it ? wtf Try that with a HD ?? That type of throttle is perfect for a CV Vacuum carb but Never a Mechanical Mikuni Racing Flatslide lol..And then i asked him to do a sustained 65 mph 5th gear cruising AFR check and he decided to check AFR to 151 MPh lol as if i really need to know that at the end of the vid i posted , Next Dyno pull will be with Nitorus after i Double spring my Clutch ,,,,,And I will be on the Throttle ,,And Roll it on ! the correct way on any Flatslide , Dyno runs are cool . Let me tell ya that hitting RED Line several times will tell ya your motor is done right ..OR ELSE !!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE hahahahaha :shock:

 

[Terry]

Fstsix » 2 minutes ago[/url]":1vjshdxz]
2 pulls , First was 4th gear and 2nd was 5th, 143.2 round off 144hp, Rwhp..My friend has a Harley shop and is shown on my bike doing the pulls, He had my bike in 5th gear and brought it down to 15 mph and around 1000 rpm and hammered it ? wtf Try that with a HD ?? That type of throttle is perfect for a CV Vacuum carb but Never a Mechanical Mikuni Racing Flatslide lol..And then i asked him to do a sustained 65 mph 5th gear cruising AFR check and he decided to check AFR to 151 MPh lol as if i really need to know that at the end of the vid i posted , Next Dyno pull will be with Nitorus after i Double spring my Clutch ,,,,,And I will be on the Throttle ,,And Roll it on ! the correct way on any Flatslide , Dyno runs are cool . Let me tell ya that hitting RED Line several times will tell ya your motor is done right ..OR ELSE !!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE hahahahaha :shock:

True, older machines don't have rev limiters like late model or dedicated racing machinery.

 

[Fstsix]

dan filipi » Today, 8:13 am[/url]":3dml73oa]

Fstsix » 27 minutes ago[/url]":3dml73oa]
Well, before Hooch needs to go on a Dyno, The real test should be to see if any Stock 1200 can come close to the factory reported 94 hp ? gonna be a lot of disappointing numbers , may see 65-75 Rwh, My Dyno run shown here was with a Sniffer , and the Dyno really helped with the Video also, Both pulls power was lost at around 7000 rpm, If ya listen closely you can hear a Loud Squeak ! Blower belt was loose !! costing me HP ! Also look at the AFR when throttle was opened ,, Fuel Ratio went extremely Lean ! , So After Changing to a Gates Blue Racing Belt "Thanks Randaak" for the advise on SOHC board , And Reaming my Main Jet past anything made by Sudco. And Enlarging the Needle Jet, Already have a # 95 Needle "Largest made" I have found the Flat spot FIX !! YES!! Great tool for tuning, Now my Barnett Racing Clutch and spring will not hold in 5th With Nitrous Hit ..Always something when HP is Doubled :swoon:

Good point.
Seems to me a dyno run would be a waste of money except to check emissions, that is until someone dyno's a stock 1200 but even at that there would be variables between the 2.
I'd rather see a few good old fashioned street races.

Yep , again to be respectful about GL factory HP claims the GL1500 is not even close to the claimed 100 hp specs , average is high 80's hp , jetting and after market pipes i was able to find 98.6 hp still not even what factory claimed ? But to fair to anybody here a Bone Stock GL 1200 would need to do a couple Dyno runs for base, and then with mods done use the same Dyno to get accurate gains or whatever ?

 

[Fstsix]

(True, older machines don't have rev limiters like late model or dedicated racing machinery.) I know huh ? need to put the C5 on my 1979 CBX,, it has no Limiter stock ? seen a guy on You-tube doing a exhibition with his racing Vintage CBX in Neutral Reving to 18.000 rpm ...had to ask myself.....WHY ??? noticed the comments on the vid were disabled ..can't imagine why ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYODFzLv3bY

 

[joedrum]

well it certantly is just a tool ...and dosnt trump seat of the pants opinions like some claim you need to get credit for what you say about a bike ....hooch has good torque in a very wide spot of rpm range ....this alone makes it better than stock oldwings ...i need no machine to know that ...i guess it is a measure of honesty of ones words ...but it seems dyno is no polygraph test and just not admissible in oldwing court it seems ...just like the honda hp figures are not measure of true hp to the wheel ...witch is what a bike dose ...geee never ending numbers that just miss the point it seems from all directions .....track as mention is the only real test it seems ...good experienced safe rider testing different bikes ..less reaction time is best tool it seem to measure things ....

 

[ekvh]

Dyno's don't tell the whole story. Drag strip is a great deal a reflection of the driver's skill and more importantly his diet opcorn: :beer: :salute: opcorn:

Numbers of rear wheel of all the combinations stock, then one mod at a time, would be a great baseline for people to use.

What I like most about this mod, is that aside from ignition and choice of carburation, it uses all parts that are off the Honda shelf.

Not looking for a debate of the carb choice, what I found will work on stockers is altering the lift speed of the slides. Jetting alone wouldn't do it on mine for all rpm's. It had some spots it fell flat on its face. I did it by reducing the area of the holes in the slides that create the vacuum, but it might also be done by adding weight or different springs. And actually the way I reduce the hole size also added weight. Mine had all kinds of fuel in the bowls. Put the hammer down and wait for the coughing to start, shut off the petcock and check a bowl. They're full. The problem, IMHO is at certain conditions the extra draw from the cylinder pulled the slides right to the top immediately allowing a small moment of too much air and not enough fuel.

For anyone looking to do the 1000 heads on a 1200, here's how I did the valve reliefs on my latest project.

I had a junk head, so I took a hacksaw to the valve, put three bolts in the head, chucked the valve in a bit, and let it go. Primitive but effective.

This is untouched. I'll soften the edges later. Seems to work pretty well. I'm thinking to put a little relief in the exhaust valve as well just for a little more safety.

I am thinking to put an old head gasket on the head and increase the circumference to take away the chance of the piston hitting the head. With the 1000 head at 72mm and the 1200 at 75.5mm it is very, very close to contact. The 1000 has some sharp edges along the perimeter that look they may get hot.

 

[dan filipi]

Clever trick. Seems to me that's more accurate than taking a grinder to the piston and "guessing" where to take off material.

 

[joedrum]

good post eric ...and interesting comment on the stock carbs ...hooch would not just quit running for a moment but never recover ....at times it quit totally .....even with the weber carb if i go hard sometimes it run poorly after wards till what i think the bowl gas recovers some ...the idle gas draws 1/2 way up the primary main tube ....making me think this ...hooch use the machanical fuel pump too ..some sugest electric might keep up better....but ive never instantly ck bowls of stock like you said you did or the weber ...i do agree this mod maximizes honda parts mostly to a super running motor ...seems me and you have the ones that have road time and are the real time in .....oh i like the grinder way ..but im like a machine shop with my hands on a tool ...smart hands are hard to beat ....but interesting way to do it ...id for sure soften the edges like you said

 

[joedrum]

hmmmmm not to keep draging things on ......when your not a member at ngw there no active topics to go to it seems ... :shock:

 

[ekvh]

:swoon: Guess your hands aren't so smart.

 

[Fstsix]

Myrtle Beach Dyno Drags , "Been there Done that" Bikes are weighed with rider before and pulled down with straps for proper drag, Also shows reaction time , and Hp at end of race. No they will not run 9's on the real world Drag strip lol, Hardest thing about MC drag racing is keeping the front wheel down on launch ! and then banging gears without letting off throttle, staying in your lane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Iu37PkDEKk