SCC discounts put in dumper

[dan filipi]

There are 2 sides, and both are overly passionate about it, ridiculously so if you ask me.
Setting up the single I have was and is enjoyable to run. Enjoyment is what I've gotten from it.
in a modified installation it makes sense a single carb is much easier to modify than 4.
To me, that's really all there is to it.

 

[slabghost]

Yes indeed two sides to it. As in most mods. There are the purists who believe for whatever the reason that stock is best. And there are those who modify and are happy with the result. I'm not against either myself.

 

[Ansimp]

No matter how good you carby and cams are it is not possible to double the horespower of a flat 4 engine without other major changes. The only true benchmark is actual horsepower and torque generated which must be obtained on a dyno. It is great that CGW based improvements have been beneficial to so many owners but the BS needs to stop in my opinion until there is some way to legitimately quantify claims ( quarter mile runs work also) :yes:

 

[Ansimp]

It would also be great to see the single carby gurus come up with an easy step by step conversion for the uninitiated that would be a simple process of gathering componets and putting it all together. Most riders I know just want to ride more often than they spend wrenching so anything that can make that process easier would be a welcome bonus.

 

[slabghost]

We aren't quite to the stage of step by step bolt on single but we are very close now it seems. As far as dyno or speed runs. Both can get expensive very quick and vary a good bit. If money and time were plentiful for all we could all make speed run on the salt flats. I see nothing wrong with the expression of pride in your machine. Whether you just bought it that way or built it from the first bolt up.

 

[dan filipi]

Ansimp » 36 minutes ago[/url]":3kzdxah1]
No matter how good you carby and cams are it is not possible to double the horespower of a flat 4 engine without other major changes. The only true benchmark is actual horsepower and torque generated which must be obtained on a dyno. It is great that CGW based improvements have been beneficial to so many owners but the BS needs to stop in my opinion until there is some way to legitimately quantify claims ( quarter mile runs work also) :yes:

I agree.
Sure seat of the pants is fun to brag about but some real numbers are preferred.

 

[ekvh]

slabghost » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:54 pm[/url]":2y4xp9re]

ekvh » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:55 pm[/url]":2y4xp9re]
Your memory is fading. His offer was directed straight at you, it was sincere, he wanted to know. As to discount, which is a poor choice of words, why are you always "discounting" the stock carb setups? Stock Keihins in good shape are great carbs. As to Honda or Webber or Holley or Keihin, Mikuni or the EPA, I'm writing them a letter to start consulting you before they release anything. Anything can be made to work with patience and persistence. In the last two years, I wonder how many times your carb is perfect, only to be modded again to be, perfect.

And how many variations of the stock carbs have you been running only to modify time and time again? Always closer but no cigar. :headscratch:

Exactly! I don't say they're perfect. And I don't bash other people's attempts. You keep protecting Joe, but his bias is too obvious. It is disrespectful to others time after time, but nobody asks him to tone it back and he continues to talk like this is his forum. Now I'll get banned because I bring it up.

 

[slabghost]

His bias is too obvious? He's talking about HIS bike! Are you not also biased when talking about YOUR bike? It IS his forum! As it is mine and every other members forum. We are all different people with different views. Let's just try to keep the peace. :good:

 

[joedrum]

ekvh » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:55 pm[/url]":3t22wouq]
Your memory is fading. His offer was directed straight at you, it was sincere, he wanted to know. As to discount, which is a poor choice of words, why are you always "discounting" the stock carb setups? Stock Keihins in good shape are great carbs. As to Honda or Webber or Holley or Keihin, Mikuni or the EPA, I'm writing them a letter to start consulting you before they release anything. Anything can be made to work with patience and persistence. In the last two years, I wonder how many times your carb is perfect, only to be modded again to be, perfect.

glad your posting again eric ...nope i dont ever remember robin making that challenge to me ...if he had i would have jumped unless it was middle of the winter or something ...and to cold to be possible ...but who cares ...me ive done both that makes me more able to have a good opinion..
i am not bias ...i post results of what i do ..as in comparison to things ive done before ..plain and simple ....what is also plain and simple is some with no experience to back them have opinions against someone like me saying mine ...i help the best i can on stock racks work here ...obviously i dont have them on my bike hooch ..but have bikes that do have stock carbs on them know them well and the angry dresser bike was a fast bike for a oldwing ...but hooch is plain and simple fast at any level really ....and why do i or anybody need robin to be legit ...

it dont make any difference what people who have never tried post there crap ..that in itself dose the oldwing community a deservice to the max ...is the problem eric ....the epa is just all true ..i dont care weather you think i have the right to say so ......

you guys are just deceiving in your posts ....and i feel what i do is try and right the misinfo thats given .....but epa carbs are as harder to dial in than stock carbs cause like in my case the carb itself had to be modded ..and i try to make these points too about single ....but when have people that say carb is good out of the box even that gets hard to do .....

so again not slamming stock carbs ...so same goes the other way ....theres drawbacks to a bike like mine ....in my world its called over the cliff ride ..it wasnt fun and the reason for the safety throttle :thanks:

 

[dkl]

June 2014 I made this Post on NGW in my Thread :::::::"All I can tell you is I have a 81 with the conversion, and a 82 with really good stock carbs. I'm a good rider, but I'm not good enough to ride em at the same time, but if I could, I believe the conversion would smoke the stock carbs. I will have bike all the way complete for the Fourth of July weekend, and I plan on making a long haul some where. A sure nuff long trip should answer a lot of questions. It will either be the best and simplest project I have ever done......or a long walk home."

NGW----Sunbobb and Robin....Jumped on me like a Duck on a Junebug.....

This was Robins response post directed at me:::
"If someone wants to send me a single carb setup and a rebuilt stock carb setup I will gladly put them on a Dyno on my bike and give the results. I'll pay for Dyno time. But I keep both carb setups when done. That's about as impartial as it gets. And anyone that wants to watch the session in person is more than welcome.
I'll change nothing on the bike. Only switch the carbs. Make carb adjustments only (idle, air mixture screws). No need to even sync the carbs since this will be a full throttle test. Same bike, same day."

I purty much left their site after that......but if he will send me a Ferrari and a Lamborgini, I will pay to see which is faster, I will keep both vehicles, but I will post which is better........

 

[dan filipi]

So Eric, are you saying we favor Joe's posts over yours and others?


Oh....and no, not 72 virgins but close :smilie_happy:

 

[ekvh]

I've heard the 72 virgins are actually 90 year olds, so, oh well.

 

[slabghost]

what guy in his right mind would want to be with 72 women 24/7? Mother, mother in law, wife, then toss in sisters or daughters and aunts. Is more than most of us care to deal with for a day.

 

[joedrum]

ekvh » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:26 pm[/url]":3gcspdak]
I've heard the 72 virgins are actually 90 year olds, so, oh well.

look its quite obvious to me ....that posting a link and saying it was funny is not something wrong ...the bias im accused of comes from others.....these outstanding people have bashed my deficiencies in computer and spelling skills memory and other such things i struggle with .....why cause they cant go after what i say ...so they cheap shot and sucker punch there position ...cause what i say is true ....

the bias plain and simple is others not joedrum ....when i say its a diservice to oldwingers in how NGW handles things they disagree with ....its flat out the truth ...and you guys know it ...from singles to c5 to other mods that are not approve of by others agenda ....thats fine its your right ......its also my right to post my position that differs from others adgenda.......

single carb and better ignitions is in the intrest of every indivisuals needs ...to accuse of others agenda driven crap is just crap on crap.....

eric no one wants you to leave ...you want to leave....no one has said a word about banning you but you......if you guys over other forums dont want to do single or have a place for it send them here ....and quit bashing something you never tried ...how hard is that for you guys ....apparently impossible it seems .....

anyway im about done with all the crap personally .....stupid crap like this makes it easy to see
.....what a joke ....glad i didnt follow the herd in my build .... :thanks:

 

[Dusterdude]

As far as single carbs go,im 100 percent behind them.it always amazes me why honda and the other jap manufacturers had to run 4 carbs,i hate 4 carbs.i have 4 on my 750 and they drive me bat shit crazy.one day soon,they're goin in the trash bin too

 

[dan filipi]

In response to Joe's last post...

This is a difficult topic to address.
I have seen what Joe is referring to many times.
Guys speak of being treated with respect, or not. Well that goes both ways.

Everyone has their own experiences, likes and dislikes, preferences.
As well, there are varying degrees of ingenuity and abilities and $, a big factor.
I think most would agree Joe has gotten by with very little and has come up with some very clever solutions in his way of getting by with what he has available.
Is it always right or the best? Nobody ever said it was, though in the way Joe presents it most times he does tend to make it out that way but I know Joe and he does not mean it to come across that way.
For what he has to work with he has done an amazing job.
To me, actions speak louder than words, and pictures and videos back them up.

Am I siding with Joe? Absolutely not. No more than I side with anyone else here.
There is no picking sides. It is all about doing what we can and making the best of what we have. This is no different than what Eric or anyone else on the forums has done and continue to do.

Everyone would like to be acknowledged and recognized for their own achievements.
I think most all posts reflect that does happen, but sometimes it doesn't.
This does not mean the achievement is any less than it is. Sometimes we have to pat ourselves on the back and just accept it as that, but if someone downplays the achievement, well that's just a rotten thing to do to another person. I believe this is much of what Joe is referring to.

Well anyway, we get along best we can.
Often it surprises me we all can get along as good as we do by only reading a post never having met most face to face.

That is all I have to say about this.
Let's move on and continue making our bike what WE want it to be.
There are no agenda's here. I'm starting to hate that word!

 

[Dusterdude]

Agreed

 

[joedrum]

i think dans post covers everything ......lets hope this is THE END of this kind of stuff :thanks:

 

[Dusterdude]

[THUMBS UP SIGN]

 

[joedrum]

well i was reading a SCC thread over at ngw ....and 3 things pop up as obvious ...seems about all have problems dialing in SCC builds ....carbs are a lost art ....but it sure dont take honda to be the only induction system that works ...in fact there system is poor at its best .....so people who fail at it blame this and that like icing long runners or what ever ...but sheesh this comes from people who have failed at it ...like someone should think there merit in a failure statement to promote the honda system ....

then there is the so called SCC gurus out there that push heated manifolds heated air and all .....as manditory to get SCC to work right ....well simply not true .....statements like this is proof of just how lost and art carburation has become ......it surprised me to see captian midnight is now a a member at NGW in his own name WOW.....

truth is ...the carbs available now days are almost all epa carbs ....these carbs are made to be user unfriendly and have epa junk on them that makes dialing them in almost impossible ....and there is some merit to adding heat to one of these carbs that makes them run better ...but this in way is dialing in a carb ...it just makes a poorly dial in carb run better is all.....

truth is ..in my opinion like on the motorcraft weber copy epa carb i have it took modding the carb to get it to where i could then dial the carb in good ....because epa actually took full adjustment away from the carb....once modded and dialed in ....my bike couldnt be any better .....

point being here is ...if you want to have all pluses a single or a 2 stage 2 barrel carb can bring to an oldwing ...its the carb that needs the attention ...there are many who have great running singles and 2 barrel carbs that are hone brewed by competent backyard motor dogs that simply trounce stock carbs on there best day ever ....CV carbs by design are slow carbs and far from instant plain and simple ...im not knocking stock carbs this set up when dialed in right and pretty much as the randakks literature speaks of produces some great performance and mpg capable ...but also has downsides big time if not up to par ...as in leaking gas in motor and hydro locking .....that is motor damaging .....

with the SCC on my bike ...number one deal is ..the oil is pure no leaking in motor at all ...huge power and instant response.....i dont heat anything ..truth is cold charge is simply better ...when i touch my runners there cool all the way to heads ...the gaskets are 5/8" thick and total insulation gasket ..not trying to heat runners ....this type of charge adds btu to be used over any heated set up...and if dialed in icing has not been an issue what so ever .....bike is very powerful and very fast ...but most of all its very reliable...with no down sides at all.....

if you want to SCC cause it easier DONT .....you better go in to learn the lost art of carburation on epa carbs that need modding ....at least on the webers that are common out there ....ive never work much with the vw one barrel carbs out there but did dial one in rather easy while drunk at a meet and greet ...this was mostly due to the guy that had adjusted it before hand ...and there was simply not much to do adjusting down to the 1100 motor from the 1200 motor it was on ....it seemed to be a non epa carb too...so it baffles me people having so much trouble dialing them in .....there is no plug and play ...not even stock carbs randakks has all kinds of mods and jet changes to burn todays moonshine brew they call gas today...all carbs out there were design to burn gas not moonshine of today reality....

its all about the carb guys and the lost art of dialing them in to moonshine gas .... :thanks: