SCC discounts put in dumper

[dan filipi]

I'll have to try mine sometime without the added heat, I did see an improvement way back when I first started jetting the dft. Both the used dft and the new Toms dft were running very rich at idle though, this Solex is very different in that respect.
My runners aren't isolated from the heads so they will still get heated but quite a bit less than without the coolant heat.

 

[mcgovern61]

these carbs are made to be user unfriendly and have epa junk on them that makes dialing them in almost impossible .

I understand the whole "They are harder to work on" and "user unfriendly", but as far as EPA junk, I can only say, look at China yesterday afternoon. Their smog problem is much worse than ours "was"! It was not that long ago we had terrible smog issues too. That EPA junk helped get our issue under control.

 

[slabghost]

To a point yes but mandating how it was done was just plain wrong. BTW 50 years ago that would have been a clear day here.

 

[joedrum]

mcgovern61 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:19 am[/url]":1jncz4be]

these carbs are made to be user unfriendly and have epa junk on them that makes dialing them in almost impossible .

I understand the whole "They are harder to work on" and "user unfriendly", but as far as EPA junk, I can only say, look at China yesterday afternoon. Their smog problem is much worse than ours "was"! It was not that long ago we had terrible smog issues too. That EPA junk helped get our issue under control.

gerry im surprised at you ... china for one makes everything the world uses for the most part ...damn near everything america uses ...and you single out the cars over there as reason why ...all the cars over there are most modern cars just like here ...and meet epa standards and its doing nothing there ..that's cause the pollution is caused by other things not the cars

i just recorded 60mpg from my bike with it's epa junk taken off carb ...i don't care how offended one wants to get ...it's my right to call it as i see it ...it's just words on a screen...

 

[mcgovern61]

Sorry, I was :0fftopic: My fault!

:wave: Easy Joe! I am not offended at all. (I don't really get offended by much anyway.)

I am just pointing out that some of our regulations required by EPA dramatically reduced our smog issues here. I was always amazed back in 1986 when I was running ships up and down Long Island Sound that I could look over from Bridgeport Connecticut to Long Island in the summer and see the huge yellow smog haze that followed over the Long Island Expressway (should have been called Long Island parking lot).

It took quite a long time for us to clean up our air and, unfortunately, the EPA did setup a lot of the regs that helped accomplish that. Not picking on cars, bikes or anything specifically other than we did have a serious smog issue for years and the EPA junk helped to reduce that, and yes that stuff makes adjustments a lot harder to make.

Back on topic.........

 

[joedrum]

well there having another single carb debate over at ngw and it also includes captain know it all ...sheesh what a great example of useless confusion info ...claims of no dyno results to discount a person build ...ive looked into the cost ..its to much ..to get a response that dynos are all different and not reliable from one to another that want to discount no matter what ....then there the post and videos of high performing and seat of the pants post that are discounted ...or the posts from others than the builder of a single carb as to how they run that are never considered ....

well some of the stuff is actual good info ...no economy carb for a car will be plug and play on a oldwing ....the situations are to different for that to happen .....

but the stock system is not in any way high caliber induction system either ....in fact its not even close to being one ....i personally know for myself the power you can get over stock set up and the faults you can take off the table that the stock carbs have ....

people that believe icing dosnt happen to stock carbs ...but then make comment oldwings are cold nature and dont run well in cold is just ridicules ....ive ran both stock and single carb in cold and i can tell you a single carb set up runs much better in cold than stock ...is it perfect no ...but it way more perfect than stock by a huge margin for me and my work

epa carbs car or bike have adaptability problem as adjustments and also non adjustable devices are use that makes them hard to alter .....there in not one totally adjustable carb out there today even being manufactured that i know of in the world ..that how bad these epa communist want to control things ....let alone there property rights snatching and land grabbing they do witch is a way huger issue ....

i can state that when it comes to single carb issue and my involvement it all about it being better than stock in power ...my bike is proof ...anybody thats so on the stock carb is better ..bring it to my house and have at it im not worried ...my bike is as good or better in mpg than stock and it will beat the crap and just stomp the the stock set up ...ill go against the the dual weber set ups to any time ...i know how my set up runs and im not worried at all ....a good strait carb setup in instant response ...why the stock set up is waiting for vacuum to raised the slides hooch is gone ....the longer runners of the single set ups is like a precharge setup that sucks in charge all ready available ....i use no heat at all cause cold charge is more powerful than hot ...and my runners are insulated from the head heat getting to them and travel through the hot zone is limited to the heads only ..also the motor is set up to run much cooler than than stock so haet is down there too ...bring your bike and have at it with mine is all i can say ...is it perfect my bike ...no... its a challenge to deal with a epa carb even for me with all the time i have in it ...but it sure is dam close ....

so i dont care who you are randakks on down to whoever wants to go for it ..im willing ...

there is no plug and play ..if mpg is off or down from stock in your single set up obviously to rich to the point of waisting gas ...on my bike i can get good mpg ...but if i want to show power or power ride i can lower mpg easy as the bike moves out like no oldwing ever has ....im not even worried to much about supercharge bikes either ...truth is my bike is already at the limit of clutch and other stuff ..the set up is really tap out in the usable power department

is it a cheaper path ...well parts are cheaper ...but all things said and getting above stock is quite the endeavor and every bit as tough or more than dealing with stock carb rack that basically wore out and a nightmare too ... its just what you want for all your effort plain and simple.....:thanks:

 

[dan filipi]

The way I see it, you need others to see what your bike can do to gain some/more credibility. Enough interest may be an entirely different thing.

 

[ekvh]

To make people believe would probably take separate dyno runs of the same bike and motor with the different carb/ intake possibilities on the same day under the same conditions with the same ignition etc. Motors can vary depending on condition. Running different bikes won't prove or disprove it convincingly. The option to try it is as free as the opinion. Anyone who wants to do it, has enough info now to do it fairly easy.

Nice to see the discussion stay a discussion.

 

[joedrum]

well with all the parts i had to work with gone thanks to the american shedevil society we got going on in this country that makes it easy to rape a man of everything ...i couldnt do that if i wanted to eric ....but i wouldnt any way people can believe or not i could care less ...ive worked on and posted about as honestly as i know how ... that should be all thats needed ...hooch not only is SCC its got many mods on it most thought were impossible to do ...my grammar sucks but my work is hard to beat in the results department ...im not much in bling department either ..but machanical caveman approach is rather my strong point... :thanks:

 

[Fstsix]

Man that was a lot of reading ! LOL.Good stuff ! Think i see why so many are interested in the Single carb conversion, I would myself like to see some Dyno comparisons also one day that would be interesting ! Why ? well i agree with some comments about the stock CV Carb offered by Honda being a EPA conformed Street app by the factory for production, Well i am too Not a big fan of CV carbs, Only because they are Not really a Performance carb at all ! As a matter of fact i am at a Standstill with my CBX because all is needed to complete is Carbs., But i cant stomach putting the CV factory carbs back on ! So it has been sitting in my heated basement waiting for 3 DCOE 40 siderafts, Just to shed a little light most that race use Keihen CR Mechanical carbs ,but again that would be 6 carbs to tune vs 3 Webers , And i never see Webers on the CBX so decision made, Well CV carb story for ya'll Manacharger Superchargers had offered a complete kit for the GL1500 Valkyrie, and it was a complete kit Including New single 40mm Keihen CV carb, What a Peace of $hit ! so after many calls to Bill at Magnacharger for tuning help i could Not tune the damn thing ! after spending $ 5.000.00 it took me me 30 days and i tossed the CV in the trash ! actually gave it to a friend ,,Most my friends ride race HD's , and all laughed when i showed them what i was trying to tune lol, The CV is a great mild street carb but wrong app for performance for sure, It dose not have the Tuning capabilities in the Slow circuit as the HSR Mikuni , and the HSR is Mechanical , Bill from Magnacharger now offers the HSR with his kit and what a improvement ! Also just thinking about the single runner vs 2 barrel single carb app, VMax had proved that even though it had 4 separate Carbs to pull more HP they developed the Vboost system that would under hard throttle would open a plenum chamber and all 4 Carbs would feed all at once eliminating the single runner at full throttle , This would give the VMax 10% more HP, I have lots of Dyno time on my Blown/Nitrous bike and it is a good way to check all the hard work we do to see if it pays off !>V-Boost

V-Boost is a system that opens butterfly valves in the intake manifold between the 1st and 2nd and between the 3rd and 4th cylinders starting from 5,750 rpm. The valves are opened gradually to match the rising engine speed with a signal provided by the ignition system. The valves are at the full open position at 8,000 rpm. A small black box sends a computed signal to a servo motor that pulls a wire to open the butterfly valves. The V-Boost system adds 10 percent to the top power rating of the base engine.[10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_V-Max_and_VMAX

 

[joedrum]

interesting post and it kind of confirms my work in a very basic form my bike operates ...the progressive two barrel carb i use ...the carb goes as the rpm goes up ...kind of same thing but different way of doing it.... :thanks:

 

[Ansimp]

ekvh » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:22 am[/url]":1aj9d1e4]
To make people believe would probably take separate dyno runs of the same bike and motor with the different carb/ intake possibilities on the same day under the same conditions with the same ignition etc. Motors can vary depending on condition. Running different bikes won't prove or disprove it convincingly. The option to try it is as free as the opinion. Anyone who wants to do it, has enough info now to do it fairly easy.

Nice to see the discussion stay a discussion.

+1 :good:
It would be nice if the SCC members could come up with a formula for potential members re manifold and readily available carburettor with the correct jetting to replace the stock racks :yes:

 

[Fstsix]

Joedrum , Bet the Hooch would surprise many! Watch that High speed wobble ! :hi:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4giqUrQOwc[/video]

 

[joedrum]

you got that right Fstsix ...i dont play in first gear till im safely going ...and you have to be brave to stay on it to get into forth gear ...had high speed wobble once ...wow that aint cool at all ..if i had the money id put into frame and supension ...so for now i play hard in second and a bit third ...and i also have it where the throttle to where i cant get it all ...for safty in general

 

[CRAFTMAN6001]

joedrum » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:07 pm[/url]":25skmz9x]
well with all the parts i had to work with gone thanks to the american shedevil society we got going on in this country that makes it easy to rape a man of everything ...i couldnt do that if i wanted to eric ....but i wouldnt any way people can believe or not i could care less ...ive worked on and posted about as honestly as i know how ... that should be all thats needed ...hooch not only is SCC its got many mods on it most thought were impossible to do ...my grammar sucks but my work is hard to beat in the results department ...im not much in bling department either ..but machanical caveman approach is rather my strong point... :thanks:

Amen..!

 

[mcgovern61]

Fstsix » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:36 pm[/url]":35sncn3l]
Joedrum , Bet the Hooch would surprise many! Watch that High speed wobble ! :hi:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4giqUrQOwc[/video]

That was a great movie and he sure had big ones!! :shock:

 

[joedrum]

Ansimp » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:26 pm[/url]":1tt7dul7]

ekvh » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:22 am[/url]":1tt7dul7]
To make people believe would probably take separate dyno runs of the same bike and motor with the different carb/ intake possibilities on the same day under the same conditions with the same ignition etc. Motors can vary depending on condition. Running different bikes won't prove or disprove it convincingly. The option to try it is as free as the opinion. Anyone who wants to do it, has enough info now to do it fairly easy.

Nice to see the discussion stay a discussion.

+1 :good:
It would be nice if the SCC members could come up with a formula for potential members re manifold and readily available carburettor with the correct jetting to replace the stock racks :yes:

yes that would be nice ...but over the time ive been involved ...it seems the differences in jetting and all on other builds by others has been way different ..some using heat to get better running ...and it appears to work for most ....

what ive noticed is that we use to have a member here windnwing that had the water cooled manifold after market set up ..it ran real well ...but it also was down on mpg from stock ...about a 1/3...heat wont dial in a epa carb at all ...his carb was a weber 28-32...so to me the carb was still off and the heated manifold really didnt change that ..it did make it run decent though ...and this manifold has always been considered the best set up ....

to me the biggest failure in single carb conversion isnt manifold its the epa carb and mismatched circuits to oldwing applications ....idle circuit being off the most ...to the point jetting range dosnt have enough window to correct ....the is is the gas waster in my opinion .....

manifolds in my opinion are secondary deal just about anything that seals good works ....runner sizes ...lengths and curves are basically not a big deal to me ...personally iwant no flow problem at high rpm and my runners are big ...the type 4 vw plenum i use is about an 1 1/4 opening at runners and then mine open up to 1 1/2 ...the dkl pvc system and stock horn seems to be good deal and runner size decreases ..been good results with that too ...sealing is everything in the manifold plain and simple

as far as carb gose seems solex is the easiest to dial in and basiclly a strait carb ...but has limitations as in covering the entire rpm zone ...id say ....the weber dft 32-32 epa carb is not bad either but id say more a challenge to get right ....

theres never going to be a plug and play deal i dont think ..carbs availible are just not made with proper circuits sizes to be jet and go ....to bad really but that just the way it is it seems .....SCC is for the people that go into it as it being a challenge ...to get right ....on my bike when its cold out mine sufferes at idle but fine everywhere else to the point it hard to believe it wont idle good ...even on the best days idle is not as good as a nice stock rack can idle ....but im ok with that cause it dose everything else at a very high level to some id say that it finicky enough they wouldnt want to deal with the idle ...lol im getting good at it :thanks:

 

[Omega Man]

But Joe, I've seen videos of hooch idling quite nicely and even more so after the C5(I forget which came first). When you say it doesn't I get confused.

~O~

 

[joedrum]

yes randy you can get it to idle well ...but in riding conditions in use ...but it has a small window that this happens ....just no where near rock solid idle under all conditions you get into while riding ...could be the long runners play apart here ...and is a deficit when running the motor at its lowest setting ...im not really sure ....i think people with smaller runners probably can get a idle that is more solid than mine maybe also ...hard to say really im not going to pretend i know why when i dont .....

 

[slabghost]

You completely removed the choke plates so they aren't in place to restrict intake some at idle. That may be the issue but it runs fine otherwise so. I'd just live with it as is.