running issue. its got me beaten

[joedrum]

yes what great post dan ..that would be my move

 

[dan filipi]

Just a thought to ponder, Paul say's the C5 will run fine down below 9 volts.
I'd imagine the coils are a different story. I don't think we ever talked about that.

 

[mcgovern61]

dan filipi » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:49 am[/url]":1kybqizu]
Just a thought to ponder, Paul say's the C5 will run fine down below 9 volts.
I'd imagine the coils are a different story. I don't think we ever talked about that.

Good discussion topic for a new thread!! :yes:

 

[dan filipi]

I'll have to check with Paul, seems like he said the complete ignition can run on a 9 volt battery.

 

[C5Performance]

dan filipi » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:30 pm[/url]":cpwlbhfk]
I'll have to check with Paul, seems like he said the complete ignition can run on a 9 volt battery.

The ignition module can operate on a 9v flashlight battery, but not the coil.
When a 3 ohm coil is on, it draws 4 amps. A motorcycle sized battery with at least 9 volts will operate our coils.

Yes the saturation times are extremely low compared to Dyna or others, but you still need a certain amount of voltage/amperage while the coil is charging up.

The simplest way to resolve a "low volt" question is to run power directly from the battery to the coils. On the GL1000 that will be the center coil lead which is red. If your problem goes away, you know its a connection issue somewhere on the vehicle. If not (assuming your battery tests ok) then you have other issues. Your battery should have at least 9 volts to operate the coils, and if its that low I doubt your starter would work anyway.

Does this make sense? Run a jumper wire from your battery directly to the module and coils, then report back to us.

-Paul

 

[joedrum]

makes sense to me

 

[C5Performance]

Ansimp » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:15 pm[/url]":1xzkpwnl]
Wasted spark is the firing of 2 cylinders at once and only is on the combustion stroke. The C5 main improvement is multi sparking during the combustion stroke.

With a rich engine or weak ignition a wasted spark setup can cause a few issues. It is more pronounced on engines such as Harley, Virago, or Moto Guzzi with a V configuration.

I have never noticed an issue with inline Japanese cycles...they all run wasted spark (1-4 and 2-3). Also with multiple sparking there isn't enough unburned fuel left in the cylinder to cause ignition at the "wrong time" during exhaust stroke.

My thought as I read this thread was perhaps a leaking intake runner (Steve83 actually mentioned that earlier in this conversation).
Swapping carbs would not solve the issue if the intake was a problem. It could also be a sticky valve. My Peugeot car had the same issue after a rebuild and it ended up being the valve guide was on the tight side. Once we put on miles the issue slowly went away. I have seen motorcycles do the same thing (tight valve guide)

Unfortunately all the really smart guys have already tossed out some wonderful suggestions. If the bike runs better with our C5 then I also would guess the bike is running rich, only because that is one area multi spark makes a dramatic improvement with.

I will consult my local Wing guy and see what Louis has to say about this.

 

[Ansimp]

All good guesses. The carb rack is now on his 76 which needed carbs doing and it runs perfectly. What I was trying to highlight is the 75 idles noticeably better with the C5 than a Dyna conversion

 

[slabghost]

Is it possible the 75 got put together unbalanced? Maybe pistons installed in the wrong cylinders to balance? Just tossing out possibilities.

 

[aussiegold]

slabghost » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:56 am[/url]":3v0zc0hj]
Is it possible the 75 got put together unbalanced? Maybe pistons installed in the wrong cylinders to balance? Just tossing out possibilities.

hope not... :roll: but thats where i'm headed. i still dont know for sure if the " vibration " is related to the stumble/hesitation/no 1 thing.
time for a recap.
first of all, it doesnt stop the bike from running. its just annoying that it dont run smooth. :headscratch:
things done to attempt a remedy....

fuel.
tank drained and sloshed with metho. refilled with fresh fuel. filter washed and checked ( brass sinter type )
fuel pump changed to a known good one. ( original had a slightly perished diaphram.)
carbs washed ,sprayed, cleaned, blown thru, ( repeatedly ) all new o rings and gaskets. ( randakk )
aligned the emulsion tubes as per tip here https://www.wingovations.com/gl1000-main ... 4579471123
carb floats , left in a jar of petrol to see if any one of them soaked up fuel , all floated overnight.
attachment made from and old carb bowl drain screw and clear plastic hose to observe action of the needle valves. all shut off correctly.
slides polished to within an inch of their lives. cut off valve replaced. ( again )
fuel hoses all new from Wingovations. ( braided type )

ignition
plugs changed from iriddium to stock type with resistor, and the stock type without resistor.
plug leads are ones supplied with the C5. plug caps were new NGK with resistor. removed the resistors and tried that. but keeping two types of resistor in line
as per recommendation from Power Arc. so, now it has resistor leads, resistor plugs , caps with resistors removed and replaced with brass billet.
several plug gaps tested.
tested the timing advance in all settings.
eventually, removed the C5 and re installed the Dynatek coils and points replacement modules. it ran worse. it was then i surmised that the C5 is so efficient that it was
actually masking or compensating for whatever weak spot its got.
reinstalled the C5.
it was around this time that a friend suggested checking the charge rate, which i did. thought it was a little high ( 14.9 ) at 3000 revs. so i replaced the reg bringing it down to
13.7. Battery is less than a year old. glass mat type.

valve timing.
compression tested with my ( old as the hills) tester. read low ( 120 ) but even on all cylinders
entertained the remote possibility that the cams may have been mismatched. ( thought maybe the supplier had mixed them up )
swapped them over with cams from my spare 76 engine.
removed the heads . checked all valve stems one by one for straightness. checked the action in the guide.
very lightly lapped them. poured petrol into cavity above each valve and check for seepage. ( nothing )
re installed heads using my last ( and expensive ) Honda head gaskets.

thats all i can remember for now .... :Egyptian: so , now i have the heads off again, to check piston height. dont know what i thought would have changed. k:
next steps are to remove this engine and reinstall the spare 76 engine. then split the cases on this one, just to reassure myself that all bearings etc are good.

 

[ekvh]

I have never read John's post on the emulsion tubes. Interesting. What holds them there so they don't turn from vibration?

 

[aussiegold]

ekvh » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:22 pm[/url]"a5c921f]
I have never read John's post on the emulsion tubes. Interesting. What holds them there so they don't turn from vibration?

they are a press fit into the carb body. then, the two brass jets with orings are a push fit into the towers. which are held in place by the metal jet holder which in turn is held firmly in place by the fuel bowl itself.

 

[Steve83]

Check the valve springs while you have the heads off. If one is weak or broken - problems.

 

[slabghost]

If you get that far into it. weigh the piston rod assemblies and try to get both pairs front and back the same weight. If they aren't now that may at least be part of the vibration issue. I'm on your side of this now. Beats me what's up.

 

[joedrum]

well there might just be a reason this motor had no miles on it

 

[aussiegold]

joedrum » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:49 pm[/url]":2xn3rn3c]
well there might just be a reason this motor had no miles on it

a very good reason Joe. it has been totally revamped. bored and honed to the first oversize. new primary chain. primary chain tensioner from a 1200 added.new starter chain and oil pump chain. new oil pump. new Honda pistons and rings. all new big end bearings and conrod bearings. all new bearings in both cases. new shift drum and new shift forks. ( very hard to find ) new clutch ( Barnett ) new water pump and the list goes on and on.
and , if it dont run right ,it will be one very expensive boat anchor... :nea:

 

[joedrum]

hmmmmm sheesh ..i didnt know there was so much on the table....lots of culprits to consider

 

[aussiegold]

well, i've got the engine out and on the bench. i can state that i am certain all the rear of the engine is good. everything was as tight as a drum. tomorrow, i take the front cover off and split the cases. dont know what i'm looking for ..... ha ha :Egyptian:

 

[joedrum]

yep .... aussie i am looking and thinking hard and coming up empty also ....just keep plowing eventually something will surface

 

[mcgovern61]

dont know what i'm looking for ..... ha ha

Well, there should be pistons, connecting rods, bearings, crankshaft......the usual stuff! :smilie_happy:

If you see anything unusual like a left handed smoke shifter or a bucket of relative bearings, I would be suspicious! :smilie_happy: :wave: